[.75] Warrior hero impressions

from Elemental Forums

I love to play, sometimes, pure warrior hero, with an army and with minimal magic. For now, however, it is quite hard, not to say impossible. 

Warrior hero is also kind of blah. Here are my thoughts: 

 

First of all - very low attack. I have now Verga on lvl 12 warrior, he uses 16 attack one-handed pike, and his total attack is 25. 

16 (pike) + 3 (warrior) + 6 ('1+2+3' from skill tree). This means that he has only +9 bonus to attack. I think bonuses from skills should be +3/6/9, at least, or in truth +5/10/15. Warrior should have also +1 att/ lvl ... At least. Right now my hero is worthless, my Jaggernauts deal way, way, way more damage (also all other troops), and he cannot be a tank either (high def is not useful as it used to be, i like it, since it can be countered) . 

Second, skills are still not so good. 

  • blade rush - quite useless, since it is almost impossible to get more than 2 enemy troops in line. Also, there is no extra bonus damage. Cleave, assigned to a weapon and available since lvl1 is better and more effective than this late-level skill. Further, since now swarm is a real killer this skill often has to be declined because it will put hero out of position/danger. A significant damage bonus should be added. However, i propose to change this skill into flicker strike: an attack that will basically work as chain lightning. Hero will stay were he is, but animation will show him jumping forth and back striking enemies in chain reaction, all those who are beside initial target, and then their neighbors as well. In this way hero could hit a pretty big crowd, as long as they stay close to each other, all unit in a cluster will get hit.
  • number of interesting skills force player to first choose perks, which are connected to a different weapon, and thus useless. The last skill for spear/sword/blunt weapons are usually nice, but i can only use one weapon, and thus, it is a waste of points.   
  • there are no defense enhancing perks, i think entire branch could be made of defensive skills, such as:
    • turtle - cannot be swarmed (permanent, or for number of turns)
    • focused - 50% of def and dodge bonus for 3 turns 
    • shield master - double dodge/defense from shields, or/and bonus to bash (can be another branch witch shield skills: can push two or more enemies, (like cleave) can cause them to go to prone, shield wall can reduce damage by 80% but hero cannot perform any attack while it last etc.) 
    • tough skin - natural resistances 
    • last stance - for 3 turns hero cannot move but all damage is reduced by 50%
    • fury - unit gets extra counterattack (even to weaps which do not allow it) for 3 turns 
    • war cry/challenge - force enemy troops to attack a hero for 3 turns, and to ignore other units (can be resisted)
    • and finally, offensive skill: bloody frienzy - if a unit is killed, a hero gets an extra action. If in this extra action hero kills again, he gets another action. If finally, he fails to kill, frenzy ends and is on 5-turns cooldown.   

To summarize, i would like to have a warrior who can, if played wisely, be an army in itself and thus compete with mages. For now, he is more of a decoration. Good example is Ogr that shows up as a quest, he is a brutish scary beast with his huge sword. He is deadly, he is fast, he has good number of hp, and he requires good army to take him down. I would love to have my hero to become like that with levels. 

8,498 views 12 replies
Reply #1 from Elemental Forums Top

i agree, imho warrior and defender could be merged and useless traits could be removed. assassin is still the strongest class by far when it comes to survivability and damage (due to armor penetration and very high dodge). mages can compete with the damage of an assassin but have a fraction of the survivability. (see this feedback thread: https://forums.elementalgame.com/442233)

 

in general all classes lack real focus:

-assassins should not be able to wear heavy armor and big two handed weapons and retain armor penetration and dodge

-mages have spellbooks that unlock spells and traits in their class tree that unlock spells, seems very unfocused. did i mention that most their class spells are bad?

 

-the whole concept of the administrator class seems wrong (stay in a city and forget about them)

-defender class is useless because it does not deal damage, warrior class lacks defense. both classes fill in a similar role on the battlefield though. even if you merge the best talents out of both classes assassin would still be better.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Reply #2 from Elemental Forums Top

Although they went in the right direction with the Warrior skills, they still lack that Legendary feeling.  Each skill needs to have more oomph and there needs to be less emphasis on the whole 'tree' thing.  I would rather see more initial options and one-offs, and shorter but sweeter branches.

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Reply #3 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting tesb, reply 1
i agree, imho warrior and defender could be merged and useless traits could be removed.
End of tesb's quote

Yes, i think that the warrior and the defender should be merged, too, and the commander traits should be in the general traits.

16 (pike) + 3 (warrior) + 6 ('1+2+3' from skill tree). This means that he has only +9 bonus to attack. I think bonuses from skills should be +3/6/9, at least, or in truth +5/10/15. Warrior should have also +1 att/ lvl ... At least.

number of interesting skills force player to first choose perks, which are connected to a different weapon, and thus useless. The last skill for spear/sword/blunt weapons are usually nice, but i can only use one weapon, and thus, it is a waste of points.

End of quote

I think that the lethal traits should increase the damage by 5, 5 and 5 for a total of + 15. + 1 attack per level is dangerous, because it results in useless skills or spells (flame dart, ...) at low levels and overpowered skills or spells at high levels.

The warrior tree should look like this: https://forums.elementalgame.com/442525

Reply #4 from Elemental Forums Top

Agree, there is no clear vision right now for classes. The problem is that we have basically three melee characters in game: defender, warrior and assassin. I agree we should merge defender and warrior and create real warrior, then change assassin into ranger (range attack hero), and then create perhaps a new class in place of administrator: general. General could field bigger armies, and give significant bonuses, heal, inspire, and be a support kind of hero. Administrator in a game where 80% are tactical battles and wars is kind out of place. 

Another problem is that now you have too many heroes for a need. Hero becomes useful on lvl 10+, new arrivals cannot really get xp (all goes to first/second main hero), they are usually way behind sovs in levels and are condemned to just stay in a town. New coming heroes should be just one level below sov, and with option for a player to choose their profession/perks. Then perhaps they will be useful. 

 

If you compare this game to Eador - all the hero classes there play differently, and they are all cool and fun to play. 

 

 

Reply #5 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Wizard1200, reply 3
I think that the lethal traits should increase the damage by 5, 5 and 5 for a total of + 15. + 1 attack per level is dangerous, because it results in useless skills or spells (flame dart, ...) at low levels and overpowered skills or spells at high levels.

The warrior tree should look like this: End of Wizard1200's quote
">https://forums.elementalgame.com/442525[/quote]

Disagree.

Even on this tree, if you want to have just 3 tactical skills available for a hero: decimate, sweep, and blade rush you have to specialize in three weapon, which is kind of useless. I want to play hero with a choice of tactics, with meaningful choices, and if well played - a killing machine. To have one/two skills apart from 'attack' is bland. 

Second, at level 20 heroes should be able to fight dragons face to face. i am not sure how you want to do it with a total bonus of +15, unless weapon is like +50 (and then skills are useless) . I think bare handed hero of lvl 20 should have around 50 attack (all the more that you can find enemies having over 100 attack, and normal 4-turns mid-game Jaggers have around 60 attack).  

Reply #6 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting bpalczewski, reply 5
Second, at level 20 heroes should be able to fight dragons face to face. i am not sure how you want to do it with a total bonus of +15, unless weapon is like +50 (and then skills are useless) . I think bare handed hero of lvl 20 should have around 50 attack (all the more that you can find enemies having over 100 attack, and normal 4-turns mid-game Jaggers have around 60 attack).
End of bpalczewski's quote

Hmmm, if warriors would have an attack of around 50 at level 20 the hit points of non-defender heroes would be too low, because an attack of 50 will kill most heroes with one hit. That is currently the case with mage heroes, because they can inflict 92 points of damage with the flame dart spell (40 + 50 % (warlock) + 80 % (evoker IV)) or 46 points of damage with the storm spell (20 + 50 % (warlock) + 80 % (evoker IV)).

Reply #7 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Wizard1200, reply 6
Hmmm, if warriors would have an attack of around 50 at level 20 the hit points of non-defender heroes would be too low, because an attack of 50 will kill most heroes with one hit. That is currently the case with mage heroes, because they can inflict 92 points of damage with the flame dart spell (40 + 50 % (warlock) + 80 % (evoker IV)) or 46 points of damage with the storm spell (20 + 50 % (warlock) + 80 % (evoker IV)).
End of Wizard1200's quote

Really? 

My late level cavalry has over 200 attack, goes first into an action, and covers entire field of a battle. How can melee hero having attack of 30 and meager hp can compete with this? 

Reply #8 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting bpalczewski, reply 7
Really? 

My late level cavalry has over 200 attack, goes first into an action, and covers entire field of a battle. How can melee hero having attack of 30 and meager hp can compete with this? 
End of bpalczewski's quote

I meant the hit points of other heroes and not other units. You are right, that units with the impulsive trait are very powerful at the moment and i think that the impulsive trait should be replaced by an initiative bonus of 2. The decimate ability of the warrior tree helps a melee hero, because his attack is multiplied with the number of units in the enemy group.

Reply #9 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Wizard1200, reply 8
I meant the hit points of other heroes and not other units. You are right, that units with the impulsive trait are very powerful at the moment and i think that the impulsive trait should be replaced by an initiative bonus of 2. The decimate ability of the warrior tree helps a melee hero, because his attack is multiplied with the number of units in the enemy group.
End of Wizard1200's quote

Agree, decimate is a must, all the more placement of it is not that fortunate ...

Reply #10 from Elemental Forums Top

i started a new game and made a warrior sov. the new tree is better than the first version, but i can think of a few things that could make it more interesting.

the main trait line for damage - lethal 1-3 seems ok, but the effects are pretty weak. instead of removing letal 4 & 5, you should have removed the lowest 2 ranks (so basically you'd get 3+4+5 damage). later in the tree, another trait that adds 1 att/level would be nice; 

the axe/bruiser/impale/sword lines are ok, but to make them more interesting, each of them could unlock passive effects - so even if you have axeman 1/2, you could still use that awesome hammer or spear you just looted from that dragon without that nagging feeling that you're doing something wrong. axe could give you 5+10 crit chance for example, impale could give 15+30 armor penetration, bruiser +10%+20% damage, sword +5/+10 defense or whatever - so it would make sense to grab the talents for your current weapon and when you switch weapons, you still benefit from the passive bonus

the +1/+2/+3 HP on hit seems a bit weak, by the time you get there, you fight stuff that hits for 50 to gain any significant XP; how about 5/10/15 % of the damage done (for a total of 30%) - with a good weapon and some combination of the other suggested perks, that would be more than static 6 HP per hit and give you a sense of progress - improving survivability by doing more damage - sounds pretty cool (imo)

 

some synergy between spells and melee attacks would also be very nice (not just for the warrior - the other paths could also have similar traits)

for example, you could get +1 fire attack per fire spell rank (a maximum of 1+2+3+4+5 -> 15 fire damage if you go hybrid and level your warrior all the way up to fire archmage); air could give crit, earth maybe overpower/decimate  (some % extra damage per figure in a unit; more with higher ranks) etc etc.

with synergy effects like the above mentioned, there would be a hard and meaningful choice between picking up more warrior perks or levelling up the spellbooks- which would perhaps also give the individual champs a bit more character - a warrior with fire spellbook would be quite different from a warrior with water and air etc.

 just my 2 cents :)

Reply #11 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Azunai_, reply 10
the main trait line for damage - lethal 1-3 seems ok, but the effects are pretty weak. instead of removing letal 4 & 5, you should have removed the lowest 2 ranks (so basically you'd get 3+4+5 damage). later in the tree, another trait that adds 1 att/level would be nice; 

the axe/bruiser/impale/sword lines are ok, but to make them more interesting, each of them could unlock passive effects - so even if you have axeman 1/2, you could still use that awesome hammer or spear you just looted from that dragon without that nagging feeling that you're doing something wrong.

the +1/+2/+3 HP on hit seems a bit weak, by the time you get there, you fight stuff that hits for 50 to gain any significant XP; how about 5/10/15 % of the damage done (for a total of 30%) - with a good weapon and some combination of the other suggested perks, that would be more than static 6 HP per hit and give you a sense of progress - improving survivability by doing more damage - sounds pretty cool
End of Azunai_'s quote

Yeah, lethal is too weak, but it will be improved in the next patch to 2 / 3 / 4 and muscle will increase the attack by 1, too, but i think that lethal should increase the attack by 3 / 4 / 5, as you suggested, and muscle should only increase the maximum weight.

Instead of unlocking passive effects the axemen, bruiser, spearman and swordsman traits should not require other traits and the bonus of the second trait should be reduced to 25 %, but the cooldown of all abilities should be reduced to 3 turns, because a long cooldown makes the combat boring.

Instead of healing 5 % / 10 % / 15 % of the inflicted damage reap should have only two traits that heal 15 % / 15 % of the inflicted damage, because healing 5 % of the inflicted damage is very low at the low levels.

Reply #12 from Elemental Forums Top

I think that the enmity ability (+ 25 % attack vs. the opposite faction) is one of the worst abilities in the game, because it is very situational. The ability should be removed from the warrior tree to make the tree shorter.