[feature request] Game Economy

Please fix Stack Of Death == Automatic Win

from Elemental Forums

I'm sure the economy in Elemental/FE/LH has been set the way it is on purpose.  I am failing to see the purpose, however.  There is far too little income generation and troops have too large of wages.  Unless you straight line to all the income generation you might have enough income to support 2 stacks of units, but probably not.  Certainly not if you want to buy equipment to make your Champions useful - which is another issue entirely - other posters have asked why Champion equipment costs so much more than the same item on a trained troop.  Every other 4X I've played you are able to maintain at least twice the standing army.

I've played entire games of FE where I only had my Sov stack - and I was hovering between -2 to +2 gold per turn the whole game.  (The one game of LH I played was a little better.  I had 2 full stacks.)  Fortunately the AI has been sufficiently stupid as to not punch me back where my Sov was not located.  But then, the AI is (hopefully) suffering the same issues as the player - a lack of units.  This lack of units makes for very little challenge - once you defeat the one enemy stack there is no stopping you from wiping out his entire empire. 

I think having a stronger game economy will make for far more interesting game play.  Having more units makes for more strategic opportunity.  Right now the player has to depend on the automatically spawning city militia and hope that they don't get hit where their Sov stack is not.  I would rather not have any auto city defense and have to place defending units myself.

I've tried not having the Stack Of Death with my Sov.  Quests are not possible without the SOD.  The SOD was a broken game mechanic in Civ 4.  From my experience it is a broken game mechanic in FE/LH as well.

 

10,657 views 10 replies
Reply #1 from Elemental Forums Top

I think each city should at minimum have either free support for 2 troops or +2 to +3 gold income for the purpose of wages.   The basic militias don't keep the really nasties out and you have to defend your cities.   

Also, I think the first two heroes (or even three?  Maybe all since the hero mechanic has been improved)  should not cost wages.  Bocco the idiot comes out as often as the plague and its just a hammer to the early game econ.   But hey who turns down a free unit?  A hero at that.  

The early game is supposed to be slow, granted.  But is this slow or choked off and stifled ?

 

Reply #2 from Stardock Forums Top

not sure how you are playing buy I always have more gold than I can use, of course I don't rush stuff or waste it buying items for my heroes till mid game.  Cast Propaganda, sell items you loot. do a bit of research for better gold production. For the first 75 or so turns I have taxes set to none. when I run out of money I cast propaganda on a few cities and set it to low. if you really are having that much of a problem select the wealthy trait that will help with the start. income seems pretty balanced to me right now. maybe even needs to be toned down mid to late game somehow.

Galactic Civilizations IV
Reply #3 from Elemental Forums Top
Yes, I'm with Kangon. Even on difficult I do not have money issues. Yes, sometimes a crunch hits. I do sell all the animal parts I get, and I sell useless weapons, etc. SOD, yes, I don't like the stack of doom. But unless the strategic map is modified so ZOC, ranged fire (or reaction fire), (larger density of defender = more damage taken). etc. Not sure what solution to SOD is....
Reply #4 from Elemental Forums Top

If every CityHub gave +2 Gildar in addition to what they do, many problems would be fixed.

 

Early cities would help pay their way, and as costs increase in the late game, the value of "city hub gold" would decrease compared to the value of gold from other sources.

Reply #5 from Elemental Forums Top

Never have problems once I have a couple of towns built. I literally am flowing in gold by mid-game. I never even have to raise taxes above low in ANY game.

Reply #6 from Elemental Forums Top

Build Towns, and gold improvements. They are your main source of gold. I never have a problem with gold.

Reply #7 from Elemental Forums Top

specialize your cities to avoid that kind of problem. use tiles with essences for conclaves, high production tiles for fortresses and build towns on those mediocre 5/3/0, 3/4/0 or 4/3/0 tiles (depends on play style - spam lots of simple units with high production fortesses or use those production heavy tiles for extra towns and build only one or very few high essence fortresses with damage/inititiave/defense enchants and rush buy elite troops with all that excess money from the towns) 

towns are there for cash and faction food - they don't really need the extra unrest reduction from the essence based buildings (cleric/shrine/temple) since both their production and their research aren't very important. if you have the choice, pick locations on rivers since the pier/harbor buildings increase both, gildar and growth, which are the main strengths of a town.

a few conclaves on high essence tiles can produce crazy research (especially in the mid/late game once you add an alchemist and the research percentage buildings). concentrate your research there.

focus the towns on gold (merchant, market, well/inn/festival; if it's on a river  also pier/harbor/water mill line). keep in mind that food translates into growth, so don't neglect the +food and faction food buildings either. a base town (level 2) has 4 gildar base yield, a level 3 town has 8 base, a size 4 town has 12 - so growing them to higher levels also gives you more cash to filed larger armies. skip the research buildings in towns until all available money and food buildings are built - a bit more research is nice, but a single decent conclave produces more research than 3 towns combined, so don't try to get everything everywhere. specialization is more efficient than trying to balance all settlements to produce a bit of everything.

you may also want to use one of those 1/5/0 forest tiles for a town. it will take a long time to even reach level 2 (you'll need some agrarian tech, a granary and probably some faction food buildings) but you can use this site to get the treasury vault and brewery built fairly fast once you unlock those buildings.  

Reply #8 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Azunai_, reply 7
... build towns on those mediocre 5/3/0, 3/4/0 or 4/3/0 tiles
End of Azunai_'s quote

 

"Mediocre?" 

 

MEDIOCRE???

 

Is there something frigging wrong with my &*#&@! computer's random number generators? I see those as pretty darn good tiles. I rarely see anything better.

 

I really am beginning to wonder if there is something wrong with my processor...

Reply #9 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Ahriman, reply 8

Quoting Azunai_, reply 7... build towns on those mediocre 5/3/0, 3/4/0 or 4/3/0 tiles

 

"Mediocre?" 

 

MEDIOCRE???

 

Is there something frigging wrong with my &*#&@! computer's random number generators? I see those as pretty darn good tiles. I rarely see anything better.

 

I really am beginning to wonder if there is something wrong with my processor...
End of Ahriman's quote

No your computer just doesn't like you... just like mine doesn't like me. :troll:

Reply #10 from Elemental Forums Top

random map generator seems to be... well. fairly random ;) i've played maps where almost every settling area had at least one essence (often with really nice tiles such as 5/3/1, 2/3/4, 3/3/3 etc.) and i've also got maps where i only had a standard 4/3/2 starting location, a not-so-great 1/5/0 10 tiles away and nothing else within a radius of 20 tiles - except for a juicy 3/3/3 spot with a grain nearby that was guarded by a lovely fire lord army. huge maps seem to have better tiles overall (could be luck - haven't payed that many huge maps yet :) )