Leveling and the Mage Sovereign

from Elemental Forums

One thing I've noticed about the game that I dislike...  It is much harder to level a mage sovereign than it is to level a straight warrior.  The reason for this is that spell abilities generally require the use of the mana resource in virtually every battle.  A lot of effort is thus required in the cities to support your sovereign by making shrines, herbalists, etc.  You must turn one or two towns into conclaves and then focus on mana resources.  You have to avoid ongoing mana cost enchantments as this will cut into your combat power.

Warriors don't need conclaves as much.  They can just focus on getting the best gear, so that just means money which means growth.  Towns for the cash and Fortresses for support.

It's important in this game to level your sovereign quickly.  Sovereign level affects prestige, which affects city growth.  Plus a higher level sovereign clears out areas for your cities, and can defend.  So having the warrior path have a significantly higher leveling velocity...  I don't think that's a good design in general.

My proposal: either have path of the mage include +1 mana/round, or have that path unlock traits that provide mana/round.   

7,053 views 5 replies
Reply #1 from Elemental Forums Top

If you make a custom Hero you can give him/her +2mana/round from the get-go.

Yes, mages have a hard time early on. But especially death mages can be awsome once you get the mana rolling.

And yes, i can have my warrior or assassin at 20 faster, but when it comes to clearing out the big stuff you'll usually need supporting units, especially if you haven't found a good weapon (so, while mages are mana dependant, warriors are gear dependant/need unit support). Not to speak of the enchantments you're missing out on.

A mage doesn't need support if you have the mana/shards. Talk about one-shotting the Wildland elementals with Sunder for example. Even in early game you can kill whole enemy armies by having a horse and the corruption spell (needs some combat time, but very mana efficient).

Also, things have gotten a lot better with meditation around.

What kind of mages have you been building?

Reply #2 from Elemental Forums Top

Sounds like you need to try Rise of the Magi. <shameless plug>

The Political Machine 2024
Reply #3 from Elemental Forums Top

Yes, you can give the +mana trait to begin as a custom sovereign, but you gotta balance the non-customs too, no?

I've played with Magnar and Ceresa.  Don't get me wrong, Dirge of Ceresa and Horrific Wail are fantastic for clearing out troops.  Mages aren't underpowered.  They just level more slowly because in early game, you only get mana so quickly.  Haste/slow are also very nice lower level spells.   I like the spells mostly, except for burning hands maybe which always seems pretty useless.  

Meditation is a must.  But it's not always possible to get high essence cities.  Again, warriors would use that essence for something productive.  Mages have to convert it into mana just so they can level up.  Given the option, I'd RATHER have enchanted hammers in most cases.  But no, I have to be able to get a shot off in battle.

There's already some compensation.  Path of Mage mages get 25% off tactical spell cost.  It's just not enough, I think.  And I don't think that needs to be increased.  I just think that the *first* mage needs a bit of a boost.  +1 mana/turn on path of mage would be a large boost in early game, but less significant later when you have a few shrines already. 

Note too, I'm saying that it's hard to level mages and when I play mages I always go for Potential and Knowledge.  Because I want to hit those spell levels as quickly as possible.  It's STILL slower than a straight out fighter, I think.  

Reply #4 from Elemental Forums Top

An interesting perspective. However, there is more to consider. For example, I think my fire mage can take on more difficult enemies sooner than a melee-oriented sovereign. And by using little or no magic in more routine battles, I conserve mana.

Now in my current game, I have an assassin sovereign with a maul weapon--fun! She probably is easier to level than my fire mage now that she is matured. However, I think this is balanced by the faster start my fire mage would have had.

 

Reply #5 from Elemental Forums Top

Ultimately its tied to your city/production routes much more than a melee based character is. So city spamming is much more important. However the long term benefits far outweigh the initial difficulty.

 

I take beastmaster with my mage sovereigns, particularly any giant spider, cave bears and umberdroth make leveling a mage easier/faster. You almost don't notice not taking warlock. I did a speed conquest on Ridiculous today with a mage/beastmaster and by the time I had the first faction conquered he had Horrific Wail, and a 6 spider army, with 35 mana production from my six cities and the enemies four cities. I never found the nice mage staff, or any robes above adept, such just affinity and adept robes, were enough to sling horrific wail around with no conservation in mind.

 

Beasts also provide nice padding to your power rating number to prevent the early war declarations on harder difficulties. Once your mage is king of the hill, your free to rotate beasts over to your champions to leveling. I didn't bother producing a single unit in that match other than pioneers.