Feedback from a new player (after 120 hours of playing)

from Elemental Forums

These are all my opinions/feedback on FE. I hope they help the designers of the game (even if you don't follow my ideas to the letter).

I played about 20 hours of WoM, and I'm up to ~120 hours of FE so far. I played one game of vanilla FE, before I got bored and installed Stormworld, which made the game insanely more fun and interesting.

Like Civ 4 (which probably hurts the devs feelings slightly), Stormworld has become the Fall From Heaven of FE for me. The new races and mechanics are wonderful and a very much needed polish that I believe the original game would have benefited from having. If the company isn't actively working with the Stormworld guy, and maybe helping to feed him assets (like models and whatever else he might need), I'd suggest really going out of your way to do that. Stormworld is probably going to sell a ton of copies of FE further down the line, because it's really neat and fun!

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Okay, other main thoughts. Tactical combat is boring. It's fun for a little bit, but then it really starts to get a bit dull. I've read about people asking for backstab, flanking mechanics, etc, and I had a wonderfully elegant implementation that would make combat lots of fun!

Add in 20-30 unique combat SKILLS, like:

Backstab (x2 DMG if an ally flanks target)

Sunder (Reduces a targets defense for 2 rounds. Stacks)

Pikewall (Replaces standard +5 Defense for no action; double defense and infinite counterattacks against units with a higher initiative)

Channeling (In game already, but variations of stacking: reduced mana cost or increased dmg or increased spell mastery)

Prayer, or whatever thematically fits (1 round cast, +2 hp to all allies, no mana cost on use; something for healy types to 'do' every round)

Fortify (Replaces standard +5 Defense; stacking +5 Defense & +1 Counterattack until unit moves or attacks; non-stacking -50% initiative and -1 moves until unit moves or attacks.

Once you add in all these abilities, give EVERY, SINGLE UNIT TYPE one of these abilities WITH A COOLDOWN. Champions start with a single ability (which helps define a path for them from level 1 on); trained units might get something based on weapon type (or trained for additional labor costs); maybe have new abilities unlock at tech levels, but keep it relatively simple and streamlined.

The weapon types already kind of have this (counterattacks, second strikes, chance to knock down, no counterattacks), etc, but these passive bonuses aren't fun. Instead if units have a mesh of abilities that come on/off cooldown, it makes it lots more interesting. Every unit has something special it can do (from lowly scouts to mighty dragons), and they're all more fun an interesting.

This kind of overhaul could be a wonderful selling point for an expansion. The kind of thing that builds on the base of FE and just cements this as a classic.

These revelations came from playing a Beast Lord soveriegn, btw; I had so much more fun playing with the monsters vs. my boring trained troops.

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Second, I kind of feel like the art is lacking a bit, but it doesn't bother me a ton. I play entirely on the cloth map, and the game is very attractive and elegant that way, especially with the grid turned on. my first impressions were that this game was dated by 10-15 years, but after more time on the cloth map, I get a totally different impression. Maybe try to push that a little more as the default (especially with the grid turned on), and you'll make a better first impression. However, after you start playing, it is neat to be able to zoom in on the world and 'see stuff.' Maybe just set the default cloth to art transition a little bit lower.

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Third, a better way to transfer items between champions would rock. Maybe just a kingdom vault anyone can put stuff in or take stuff out of.

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Finally, give us like 20 times more quest/random event content. They seem so simple to create. Even if they're the same monsters, presented in different ways, it's fun and interesting to explore the world. It's such a neat, low-cost vehicle to create content. It seems like you could create new quests in an hour max. Have them continually pop up in the world, over the course of the game. Create 'civilized' quests that pop up later on in civilized lands (rebellions, new allies, etc).

As soon as combat gets that tiny little oomph to make it fun, all this game needs is a steady stream of content and it's set. DLC packs can include new, high quality races (a la Stormworld races with new art and perks and mechanics), new monsters and lairs and quests that are plug-and-play; buy the DLC, and the new content just starts appearing in the game.

Basically, make amazingly wonderful mods for your own game (which you have complete access to in every way), and produce more and more content for it! I could me myself playing FE over a long time with lots of fresh updates!

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Thanks again for reading all this. Loving the game lots!

 

4,983 views 6 replies
Reply #1 from Elemental Forums Top

Okay, other main thoughts. Tactical combat is boring. It's fun for a little bit, but then it really starts to get a bit dull. I've read about people asking for backstab, flanking mechanics, etc, and I had a wonderfully elegant implementation that would make combat lots of fun!

Add in 20-30 unique combat SKILLS, like:

Backstab (x2 DMG if an ally flanks target)

Sunder (Reduces a targets defense for 2 rounds. Stacks)

Pikewall (Replaces standard +5 Defense for no action; double defense and infinite counterattacks against units with a higher initiative)

Channeling (In game already, but variations of stacking: reduced mana cost or increased dmg or increased spell mastery)

Prayer, or whatever thematically fits (1 round cast, +2 hp to all allies, no mana cost on use; something for healy types to 'do' every round)

Fortify (Replaces standard +5 Defense; stacking +5 Defense & +1 Counterattack until unit moves or attacks; non-stacking -50% initiative and -1 moves until unit moves or attacks.

Once you add in all these abilities, give EVERY, SINGLE UNIT TYPE one of these abilities WITH A COOLDOWN. Champions start with a single ability (which helps define a path for them from level 1 on); trained units might get something based on weapon type (or trained for additional labor costs); maybe have new abilities unlock at tech levels, but keep it relatively simple and streamlined.
End of quote

While these types of specialized abilities work in the Heroes of Might and Magic series (and others), I would hate to see FE go in that direction. I have seen a few others complain the combat is "boring," but I feel combat--from unit design to battle execution--is one of the strengths of FE.

Reply #2 from Elemental Forums Top

I really wouldn't call you a "new player" after 120 hours. >_>

 

People have been asking for that kind of tactical combat since WoM. Apparently it sucks on purpose, because it's not supposed to be the focus or whatever.

 

It seemed like they talked a lot about adding new quests throughout development, but honestly it feels like there's significantly less now, to me anyway.

 

I really don't think we are going to get anything decent as DLC. They claimed the $5 map pack was to test the waters, but they couldn't have found a less appealing approach if they actually put work into it. I'd guess we are either going to get more $1 maps, or nothing else.

 

Somewhat ironic, really the only thing that made Civ4 worth playing to so many was FFH, so SD hires Kael to work on FE and yet here we are relying on a mod like Stormworld to make FE worth playing.

Star Control: Origins
Reply #3 from Elemental Forums Top


Like Civ 4 (which probably hurts the devs feelings slightly), Stormworld has become the Fall From Heaven of FE for me.
End of quote

I don't see that as hurting the devs' feelings at all.   That's the biggest shout-out to the architects you can give--that they made successful mods possible.

Reply #4 from Elemental Forums Top

Personally I have always been a proponent of "high fantasy" content in Elemental. If you recall, E:WoM actually had very few fantasy additions. Sure, there was the occasional spell but overall, the weapons were steel, the armour were plate, the soldiers were men, and the mounts were horses/wargs. FE was a big step forward in all aspects of the game, to include the wonderful instead of the mundane.

To me, it is basically not possible to have "too much" fantasy in a game. Even completely over-the-top settings like Warlock:MoA make for infinitely more interesting games because of it. Even something like Heroes Might and Magic that takes itself so seriously it has to be some kind of record presents a profoundly engaging fantasy environment to play in.

Reply #5 from Elemental Forums Top

Let's keep our fingers crossed that DLCs will propose weird races.

Reply #6 from Elemental Forums Top
Quoting coyote303, reply 1

I really wouldn't call you a "new player" after 120 hours.

End of coyote303's quote

It's like 120 hours in a week and a half of playing. I'm so enthralled that I've only been logging into WoW to raid and I haven't VP capped since I picked up the game. I also have been browsing the forums too. Pretty much nothing but FE if I can help it. -.-

Quoting Sanati, reply 2
I don't see that as hurting the devs' feelings at all. That's the biggest shout-out to the architects you can give--that they made successful mods possible.
End of Sanati's quote

It's more, for me at least, that Stormworld goes a certain distance towards "fixing" the base game. If they were going to do an expansion, it should be almost exactly like Stormworld but with all of their resources thrown behind it. It seems like, if Heavenfall or other modders could do more with the game, they would! But I honestly don't know what is or isn't possible with modding here.

But I do agree that providing a base to mod on top of is awesome too.

Another way they could develop the game, which would be similarly awesome, is to expressly try to make it extra-mod-friendly. I have no clue what modding entails, but I could see all sorts of very amazing skins for the base game. In that case, the absolute best thing they could do for the game is to just work on introducing new systems and mechanics for modders to play with (like the suggested ability system).

Quoting coyote303, reply 1
It seemed like they talked a lot about adding new quests throughout development, but honestly it feels like there's significantly less now, to me anyway.
End of coyote303's quote

How easy is it to write new quests as a modder? Is there any sort of a guide or intro for this? It just seems like you could do so much with this game. Better tactical fights (like the Final Fantasy Tactics games) and immersive quests/storytelling (but not necessarily more scenarios) seem like the best ways to develop the game.