Dragon eye quest (spoilers)

Case in point, I just won a game, diplomatic victory, just four turns after I got slaughtered in the above mentioned quest.

No it's not absurd. In fact, it was frankly underwhelming to me.

Did you notice the "Epic" difficulty level the quest is tagged with? This means "Stay the hell away unless you have an endgame army"

I went in there with four powerful champions (lv20+), three units of second-level ice-staff mages, and two units of full platemail armoured footsoldiers with tower shields and athican longswords. I won the battle pretty easily actually, my footsoldiers got incinerated because they had no fire resist, but that's all.

At this point in my research i was about 30 turns away from dances with dragons, if i focused my research on it. I hadn't cared much about that, and i'd focused more on military and magic instead.

I empowered my champions with tons of strategic spells, Very notably including stoneskin, Courage, nature's cloak and evade. I also made sure that i gave them all a fire resist ring and/or cape.

I was playing as pariden at this time.

If you think this kind of setup sounds like too much effort, you may be misunderstanding the game a bit. Being an rpg with relatively few limits on character building, FE seems designed to allow you to produce intricately powered armies that are nigh invincible. While there are definitely a few components of the game balance which need a bit of work, the general concept is sound. Plan your builds properly and you can conquer anything.

"Epic" quests are (or at least should be) the sort of thing designed to oppose high-end overpowered armies. They're the ultimate enemy that you hope to one day face. For what good is having a bazooka if all you have to fight against are insects ?

Dragons are not hard. That's a plain and simple truth. while they're an insurmountable obstacle in the earlygame, and a decent challenge in the midgame, when you get to lategame dragons are just meat. They have zero resistance to any elemental attacks, and their own attacks are comprised almost entirely of fire or physical attacks. They don't have incredible accuracy and you can focus on dodge or high defense to deal with the physical aspects.

Their fire breath is basically a long-cooldown fireball spell, which has no casting time. it's a devastating weapon if you're not prepared, however fire is also the easiest element to resist, and it's relatively easy to get to full fire resistance and be immune to it. That aside, it hits a 3x3 area centred on a single unit, and you can defeat it by spacing your units out adequately to avoid being caught in splash damage.

You just proved my point. If you've developed 4 level 20+ champions, then what do you need a dragon for? You're already powerful enough to win the game with what you have, easily.

Thus the dragon quest is pointless.

I enjoyed it, especially the hunt leading up to the 3rd statue. Finding all of them and getting the 2 Eyes was nice. Sure, I had to reload after the 3rd statue, because I had no idea, but I still think that having a dragon in a late-mid- to end-game army is a big benefit and totally awesome!

There needs to be something for builders to do. Not every game needs to be won as quickly as possible. I love maxing out my towns and if you are smart about leveling your heroes you can have mid teen level heroes pretty quickly. Turn in quests with as many heroes as you want together, kill monsters with 1 hero with troops that need to be leveled.

Nature's Cloak or whatever it is is also easy to get, the more earth shards the better. I had 4 earth shards in my latest game and that gave me 60% resistance just from that, I put on a ring and voila 85% resistance. You can get more but it's hardly necessary. Buffed to the nines a mid teen hero with a bit of healing can't tank a dragon until it kills itself.

I recken you shoulda spoilered the topic title. Not everyone's finished the quest, y'know...

And I like the aspect that AI can also do this quest.

Smile when Markin as level 6 comes banging at you with an Ashwake Dragon, long before season 100. That happened to me, once. 

No, i refuted your point. Your point was that the dragon quest is too hard, i'm telling you it isn't if you prepare properly.

If you've developed 4 level 20+ champions, then what do you need a dragon for?[/quote]

I don't need a dragon. But i want one. Specifically i want THAT one, you don't get an ashwake dragon from anywhere else. Dances with dragons gives you one of two lesser types

Not if the other guy has seven lv30+ champions, which i've had before too. BEsides that, winning a conquest victory is a long and arduous process. Having a dragon will help speed it up.

as i already illustrated, the point of the quest is to provide something epic worth doing with your endgame army, and to provide a suitable obstacle to getting an ashwake dragon

If I understand the question properly, you are asking: "If you have a single unit that can survive long enough to kill three dragons, what use would you have for another powerful unit"?

I hope you noticed that specializing in powerful units tends to reduce the number of armies you can field, compared to specializing in growth?  From that perspective, do you notice any balancing elements here?

If not, perhaps it's worth pointing out that during war it can be expensive or impossible (depending on a variety of factors) for a single unit to defend all cities?  And perhaps it's also worth noting that your military intimidation factor is essential for achieving diplomatic wins?

not a single unit, it's 3 dragons vs your army (of up to 9 units)

 
you make a very good point though. one person can't be in several places simultaneously. if you have to split up your epic army to defend a large front, you're diluting their power later on. A free dragon helps a lot, since it's a one-unit army, considering it's high HP, defense, and aoe attacks. it can stand up to hordes of lesser men in a way that few champions can, regardless of their level.

NanakoAC, there is a way to recruit Ashwake Dragons (a.k.a fire dragons.) It's a special dragon liar guarded by a special dragon. 

The problem is, it is bugged.. and it never spawns on the map. I thought it should be one of the unique resource for one of premade maps, but it seems it is not the case.

And no, Fell and Storm are not 'lesser' dragons. Both of them are superior than Ashwake in several ways.

And to OP :

Yeah, it is absurd. When I first met this final quest, fortunately my Sovereign was strong enough to solo all three dragons alone (yeah, I never thought I would fight against them, so I just sent my Sovereign alone.) But this is indeed one of less-making-sense quests.

Besides that, if they're not lesser, then they should be. the ingame descriptions specifically describe ashwake as the greatest of the dragon breeds

I remember when this quest had you fight something like 6 Ashwakes instead of 3. The problem is that this quest used to be the endgame quest before they switched it to the Wildland.

I completely disagree. Maybe you would have a point if you only play the game once, but beating the game one way over and over is boring. The Epic Quests are the reason I play the game.They are the fun part. The rest of the end game can get monotenous and boring, but  switching to Epic Quests once you are in a dominant position keeps the game fun. If anything, I hope they add more epic level quests and tougher Monster challenges that go with them.

I still think Waerloga the Dragon lord should be accompanied by 6 Ashwakes

(assuming that he is not, and that this is the reason why ppl have been beating him easily)

( and also make the dragon lord magic immune for kicks )

Well, even with lore (its description on power compared to other dragons is very vague at best), it's hard to say.

The thing is Ashwake is immune to fire (not 'resistance'. They are completely immune to fire damage.), but then they are weak against Water magic (with -50 water magic resistance)

Both Ashwake and Clambercoil dragon have 150 starting hp.

Fell has 60 starting hp, and storm with 40(!!) starting hp.

Fell has lowest starting armor, then Ashwake, Storm and finally Clambercoil with highest starting armor.

All dragons have 20 starting initiative, while storm dragon has 18.

Except Ashwake which has fire immune but -50 water resistance, all dragons have basic +20 magic resistance in general.

Storm has weakest starting melee damage, then Ashwake, Clambercoil and finally Fell Dragon with highest starting melee damage.

All dragons have fire breath, Storm Dragon has Storm, a strong air-magic nuke. Fell dragon has Contagion, a AOE DOT death magic damage. Clambercoil has no active ability, but his melee attack poison a target (poison III), and Ashwake has nothing.

It's hard to call. Because Storm Dragon's Storm is one hell of uber nuke that actually can out-damage fire breathe based on air shards you have. Not to mention, very few creatures/units have air-magic resistance (the reason air elemental is the best elemental creature, and probably the reason it is not available for summon), while there are quite many things which are immune to fire. But its weakest HP and melee damage are the problem.

Fell Dragon's Contagion is... well... after overall nerfs on death magic, its rather crap unless you have tons of death shards. It's ok against mass-trained unit army, but then, who's using mass-trained unit army against a creature who has overpower, other than dumb AIs?

Clambercoil dragon is probably the best dragon with pretty balanced stat. No active spell, but with its strong bite plus poison works well. Too bad, there is no way to gain this dragon in any way.

Ashwake is.... well, let's say I am not that impressed. Maybe good against armies with fire-damage focused.

It makes sense that this used to be the end game quest, as it's the most difficult quest in the game right now (am I right?). Even more so than Waerloga (who I have beaten before). So what's the sense of a quest more difficult than the win-the-game quest? Maybe if you have not found the Big Gate yet, but that seems unlikely ...

I think this made a better end game quest than the current one.   You had to be seriously tough to beat 6 Ashwake's.  Now it is an easier battle with only 3 dragons.   On a side note they need to beef up Waerloga if that is going to continue to be the game winning quest.  My most recent game I went out and nailed him with crushing blow with my high level champ and one-shot killed him.   It was a bit disappointing.   I agree with Tasunke.  Waerloga is a dragon lord so why not have him accompanied by a dragon army?

Try Arena of the Slakhanan. I think i found that more difficult than 3 dragons. Although one reason for that is that you have to fight several battles in a row without a chance to heal or stockpile extra mana.

As for waerloga, he's just a limp noodle. There's a dozen quests harder than him. They all have their own sense and purpose for existing. The problem there is waerloga himself, he sucks and he's far far too easy. he needs a ton more buffing to BECOME the most powerful enemy.  It doesn't make sense to use him as the bar and nerf things to below him, he needs to be raised.

I've done the Arena once, but stopped after the second combat because I had the opportunity to recruit my fallen opponent in lieu of continuing, which I thought was too good a deal to pass up. I was fine to go into the third round though, as my hero was healing people during the combats. In fact it's funny you mentioned this quest, as it occurred right before the dragon eye fiasco (I had stopped at the arena between dragon idols, because it was convenient). So no, I'd have to disagree with you that this was a harder quest (unless there was something truly horrific in that third round).

As to making W the top dog in terms of quests, I can't disagree with that. He needs to go up, or the dozen or so that you say should go down. Right now, the status quo is silly.

You fight three dragons, but you "only" get to keep one dragon.

This quest used to be the master quest, hence why it's so hard. Back then you had to fight Waerloga and a pack of ashwakes. The version you see now is actually a nerfed version. To be honest, I usually solo this quest... all you really need is fire resist on a good champ.