The Tale of Flame Dart and Sunder.

from Elemental Forums

Played a game with a dedicated spellcaster: a custom Magnar Warlock Fire Disciple with all the casting related starting skills and equipment.

Stole Spirit from my first champ (Air Apprentice) and off I went...

Flame Dart and Sunder were my main damage skills. Starting from around level 5 or so I was able to one shot just about any target: flame dart killed fleshies, sunder killed elementals (and most guys immune to fire happen to be elementals/demons i.e. extremely vulnerable to sunder). By the time the game was over, my Sunder damage was listed in tactical combat at around 300, while Flame Dart clocked in at about half as much. What's my point? I guess the point is that with a very specialized build magic can be downright overwhelming. I don't think it's a balance issue, as the AI will never be able to successfully specialize like that, but boy do those Warlock/Path of Mage/Ceresa's Staff/Evoker synergies work like a charm. I mean heck, at the end of the game even fire resistant units died to flame dart.

Anyway, so much for my experience with the mage guy. Now if you excuse me, I'm gonna go build a magic-immune Ironeer sovereign and bash my way to victory without ever casting a tactical spell.

 

rvgr

8,127 views 8 replies
Reply #1 from Stardock Forums Top

Ophidians, Obsinian Golems and Ashwake Dragons will eat you for lunch.  The first two are immune to magic and the latter is immune to fire damage and is not an Elemental.

I'm guessing your sovereign avoided these like the plague.

Reply #2 from Elemental Forums Top

Ophidians died miserably to Flame Dart. Never met an Obsidian Golem. As for Ashwake Dragons, I had three of my own, and I can tell they would have been more difficult to handle as I would have to rely on spells like Storm to kill them. One nice thing about Air magic is that it allows you incredible mobility on the battlefield: the dragon would have taken longer to kill, but it would have had a hard time catching my sovereign. Oh, and with 75% Fire resistance, the fire breath would have barely scratched me.

Ashes of the Singularity II
Reply #3 from Elemental Forums Top

Well for dragon you can use lightning it hits around 100 with some air shards around (same magic school as poster mentioned). And others simply bash with some good maul you will definately will find on exploring. iI you mage you stll can use that epic plate and shields. If yo crax you can use airs dodge buf, warg, racial, +10 evasion drape and you are good as hell agains them. So i do support oponent: fire air combo is one of most powerful and easy.

Reply #4 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting rvgr, reply 2
Ophidians died miserably to Flame Dart. Never met an Obsidian Golem. As for Ashwake Dragons, I had three of my own, and I can tell they would have been more difficult to handle as I would have to rely on spells like Storm to kill them. One nice thing about Air magic is that it allows you incredible mobility on the battlefield: the dragon would have taken longer to kill, but it would have had a hard time catching my sovereign. Oh, and with 75% Fire resistance, the fire breath would have barely scratched me.
End of rvgr's quote

Ophidians are immune to flame dart - and wouldn't even be scratched from it.

You're not describing something that is limited to just magic. A well equipped melee hero can easily and consistently beat that damage potential, to all targets, while being immune to magic themselves (yes, immune). I'm speaking of the tactical spell that makes you immune to all spells...

Also - while in my game I have a caster that is very similar to yours (listed damage of flame dart near 200), and I even take things a bit further by casting howling agony for 80+ damage to every single enemy unit, I have still lost (100% of the time) to Ophidians, or to mass trolls/giants (rock throwers), a few other armies. This is with the same caster that is level 20, equipped to hell and back, and has easily "kill" spelled the Epic-Quest monsters.

He doesn't seem anywhere more over-the-top than the melee level 20 sovereigns I can make.

 

Reply #5 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Nerhesi, reply 5

Ophidians are immune to flame dart - and wouldn't even be scratched from it.
 
End of Nerhesi's quote

Hmm, perhaps it was another snakelike creature then. Anyway, yeah I'm aware of the Arcane Veil, but its casting price doesn't make it a very practical spell except perhaps in a dire emergency. And of course any Magnar with the store bought cloak that give +50 fire resist will be totally immune to fire, but these are very infrequent situations. Fire is consistent: it kills reliably. Death also scales well with level. As for melee, the melee fighter is far more dependent on his equipment: if he has a great melee weapon, then sure, he dominates. Magic in that sense is less dependent on luck, all you need is leveling. 

Reply #6 from Elemental Forums Top

Actually - the same is true exactly of Melee. Your traits are what make you ridiculous. You buy armor just like a casting-sovereign, and you don't need to find ridiculous weapons when you consider what you can shop for.

Not that finding great weapons is hard anyways, when you consider there are around two dozen of them vs the.. 2 that exist in game that actually aid spell-casting damage? One of which you have to purchase in your Sovereign creation?

 

Reply #7 from Elemental Forums Top

I like cloak of the mage tho, just found it (-15% mana cost). Pretty nice.

 

Reply #8 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Nerhesi, reply 7
Actually - the same is true exactly of Melee. Your traits are what make you ridiculous. You buy armor just like a casting-sovereign, and you don't need to find ridiculous weapons when you consider what you can shop for.
End of Nerhesi's quote

There are a few things to consider in favor of spells though: 

1. Most damage dealing spells are ranged vs melee which is obviously up and close

2. Melee can be dodged, and Dodge itself can be significantly enhanced via spells, wargs, etc.

3. Stinking mud to keep the warrior almost immobile while the mage can teleport.

4. *Clink*. It happens.

5. Trained units. Warrior has to kill them before getting to the Mage. Not true vice versa.

Basically, if the Warrior on a horse with charge and the impatient trait manages to take the Mage out on the first turn, great. If there's any obstacle between him and the Mage, the Mage will have the advantage. Of course warriors have utility in a sense that their performance in battle is mana-independent, but mana isn't difficult to get.


Not that finding great weapons is hard anyways, when you consider there are around two dozen of them vs the.. 2 that exist in game that actually aid spell-casting damage? One of which you have to purchase in your Sovereign creation?
End of quote

I.E. Your mage is *guaranteed* to have his best weapon from day one.