How does the AI solving Quests?

from Elemental Forums

So how does it? I can't really imagine that the AI is going through all the steps the player would. Especially with Quests with serveral outcomes.

So are some quests flagged as only player doable or how is it controlled? 

 

 

15,411 views 16 replies
Reply #1 from Elemental Forums Top

It does a dice roll to see if it succeeds basically. It does not have to actually do it.

Reply #2 from Elemental Forums Top

And where is the success chance defined? How is the reward distributed? - In some quests for instance there is a choice between an item and receiving a new hero - where in the xml files is defined which one will the AI receive? 

Galactic Civilizations III
Reply #3 from Elemental Forums Top

The success chance is not known. Likely it is a formula that involves the difficulty of the quest weighted against the combat rating of the AI's army doing the quest.

Quests can specifically have a tag that blocks AI from picking them up.

Each quest has a series of tags that defines what is gained when completing a quest. Amongst these, a particular position in the XML indicates the "general success" reward. I am guessing this is what the AI gets if it wins.

As you can tell, I don't know much about the AI, mostly guessing here.

Reply #4 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting joasoze, reply 1
It does a dice roll to see if it succeeds basically. It does not have to actually do it.
End of joasoze's quote

Ugh, it's stuff like this in 4X games I'm happier not knowing.

Reply #5 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Cymsdale, reply 5

Quoting joasoze, reply 1It does a dice roll to see if it succeeds basically. It does not have to actually do it.

Ugh, it's stuff like this in 4X games I'm happier not knowing.
End of Cymsdale's quote

Me 2 ^_^, I really hope they learn to do quests at some point, although I do understand the need for the AI not to do them (Would make custom quests a pain for the AI to figure out).

Sincerely
~ Kongdej

Reply #6 from Elemental Forums Top

Ignorance is bliss :)

But I really want to know why Umber is not in the game :(

Reply #7 from Elemental Forums Top

Why doesn't it actually go through the steps though ? Can't be too difficult, most steps are about going from A to B, fighting something and selecting an option.

I just think it would be easier to actually have the AI try and do each step just like the player would be easier than trying to abstract the whole thing behind a roll (if you want that roll to make sense at least, you could always just put some simple roll check and be done with it but that's just not very good imo).

Reply #8 from Elemental Forums Top

I suspect the success roll is buggy.  The AI often wins quests that involve combat that is simply impossible for the AI's army to win in autoresolve or tactical.  Not unlikely, plain impossible, like 0% chance even if the AI rolls the 3% to hit and the enemy rolls the 3% to miss.

 

Reply #9 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting ruskyandrei, reply 8
Why doesn't it actually go through the steps though ? Can't be too difficult, most steps are about going from A to B, fighting something and selecting an option.

I just think it would be easier to actually have the AI try and do each step just like the player would be easier than trying to abstract the whole thing behind a roll (if you want that roll to make sense at least, you could always just put some simple roll check and be done with it but that's just not very good imo).
End of ruskyandrei's quote

 

It's because as quest makers we are jerks.   We say things like

You come upon a small farm where the inhabitants are all deathly ill from a sickness

Options:

 

a) Leave the family to die from the plague

b) spend 200 mana to heal the family

c) search for a cure in the deathly swamps

d) Steal all their food and valuables and then kill them mercifully

 

Can you imagine the coding involved to make the AI even semi-intelligent at doing this quest.  It would be more than it is worth,  and to make the quest would be very hard if you had to write "computer code" each time to explain what the option mean to the AI.     Don't get me wrong, I'd love the AI to be able to do quests, I just don't see a realistic way to have them do it and to still have quests with open ended text and infinite options.

Reply #10 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting joasoze, reply 7
But I really want to know why Umber is not in the game
End of joasoze's quote

That would break the game, since Umber are so awesome ;)

Sincerely
~ Kongdej

Reply #11 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Kongdej, reply 11

Quoting joasoze, reply 7But I really want to know why Umber is not in the game

That would break the game, since Umber are so awesome

Sincerely
~ Kongdej
End of Kongdej's quote

 

Umber IS in the game.  They have descriptions, and everything all made out. And they were even updated when factions went from 2 faction points to 3, Capitar gaining lucky.  The only thing they are missing is a Sov.  I create a sov for both Umber and Capitar.   Capitar is my main enemy in my current game.

Reply #12 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Lord, reply 12
Umber IS in the game.
End of Lord's quote

I know, but they haven't gotten "real" attention.
Anyways...

Sincerely
~ Kongdej

Reply #13 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Murteas, reply 10

Quoting ruskyandrei, reply 8Why doesn't it actually go through the steps though ? Can't be too difficult, most steps are about going from A to B, fighting something and selecting an option.

I just think it would be easier to actually have the AI try and do each step just like the player would be easier than trying to abstract the whole thing behind a roll (if you want that roll to make sense at least, you could always just put some simple roll check and be done with it but that's just not very good imo).

 

It's because as quest makers we are jerks.   We say things like

You come upon a small farm where the inhabitants are all deathly ill from a sickness

Options:

 

a) Leave the family to die from the plague

spend 200 mana to heal the family

c) search for a cure in the deathly swamps

d) Steal all their food and valuables and then kill them mercifully

 

Can you imagine the coding involved to make the AI even semi-intelligent at doing this quest.  It would be more than it is worth,  and to make the quest would be very hard if you had to write "computer code" each time to explain what the option mean to the AI.     Don't get me wrong, I'd love the AI to be able to do quests, I just don't see a realistic way to have them do it and to still have quests with open ended text and infinite options.
End of Murteas's quote

 

Yeah I thought about that but you could just have the AI randomly select an option. Maybe even make it more faction/sovereign specific, give each choice a flag that shows the type (Evil, Good, Conservative, etc) and then each Sovereign could pick the choices specific to his flavour.

Really, as long as no choice instantly kills you (which shouldn't be the case), just randomly selecting one would be enough.  

Reply #14 from Elemental Forums Top

Because quests are about adding flavor for human players. 

Reply #15 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting ruskyandrei, reply 14

Quoting Murteas, reply 10
Quoting ruskyandrei, reply 8Why doesn't it actually go through the steps though ? Can't be too difficult, most steps are about going from A to B, fighting something and selecting an option.

I just think it would be easier to actually have the AI try and do each step just like the player would be easier than trying to abstract the whole thing behind a roll (if you want that roll to make sense at least, you could always just put some simple roll check and be done with it but that's just not very good imo).

 

It's because as quest makers we are jerks.   We say things like

You come upon a small farm where the inhabitants are all deathly ill from a sickness

Options:

 

a) Leave the family to die from the plague

spend 200 mana to heal the family

c) search for a cure in the deathly swamps

d) Steal all their food and valuables and then kill them mercifully

 

Can you imagine the coding involved to make the AI even semi-intelligent at doing this quest.  It would be more than it is worth,  and to make the quest would be very hard if you had to write "computer code" each time to explain what the option mean to the AI.     Don't get me wrong, I'd love the AI to be able to do quests, I just don't see a realistic way to have them do it and to still have quests with open ended text and infinite options.

 

Yeah I thought about that but you could just have the AI randomly select an option. Maybe even make it more faction/sovereign specific, give each choice a flag that shows the type (Evil, Good, Conservative, etc) and then each Sovereign could pick the choices specific to his flavour.

Really, as long as no choice instantly kills you (which shouldn't be the case), just randomly selecting one would be enough.  
End of ruskyandrei's quote

 

AAAAActually, I have a quest that instantly kills you if you select an option. :D

Reply #16 from Elemental Forums Top

Interesting thoughts. However I'm sceptic about this dice roll thing. According to Brad's principle, that a feature which AI can't handle will be cut off, I would say quests can be followed by AI as well. These kind of quests are only sequences of minor goals which can be defined enough to handle it programmatically, I guess.