[Suggestion] Break up Master Scouts by terrain (and eliminate free river bonus). Also Make Stealth only protect units from Monsters and Ruffians armies up to Strong.

from Elemental Forums

Quote from ambidexter235 in the

[1.0] Master Scouts thread.

I'd split the ability into three.  There would be a trait that gets no movement penalty in forests, a cheaper one for swamps, a third cheap one for hills, and a double cost ability for being ignored by monsters.  Being able to pass rivers seem especially peculiar - some units end their turn, others ignore the water?  yikes.
End of quote

So Forest Scouts (2), Swamp Scouts (1), Hill Scouts (1), Stealth (2).

Then there is the problem that it gives Tarth way too many points.  Maybe they should get Forest Scouts and Stealth only, and a weakness to balance out (since that is four points, and factions normally start with 3).

Could you also please update Stealth trait infotip to say "Protects all units from Monsters and Ruffians faction." and if you put in the Strong limit, say "Protects all units from Monsters and Ruffians faction, up to the limit of Strong army difficulty."

Currently it could deceive players if they are getting attacked by Denizens of the Wildlands, and the Stealth trait currently only mentions monsters in general.

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Reply #1 from Elemental Forums Top

Why are you suggesting we nerf Tarth and Umber? Do you play Tarth? I know I do, and I have an easier time playing the game with Kraxis, Altar, or Gilden than I do with Tarth.

Reply #2 from Elemental Forums Top

Well, as it has been said, 50% movement cost reduction on all rough terrains AND an elimination of the stop on river penalty is a significant bonus.  I don't play Tarth, but I have played a 1.0 Custom Faction with Master Scouts, The Decalon and Enchanters, and I find that these three skills for 4 points (plus a weakness) to be a bargain.

I think the reason those three factions play better in that they have a better synergy of abilities, and their Blood traits are better.  Altar can get Lord Relias' free champions, Quest Maps, extra influence and Henchmen, and can level up quickly, Kraxis gets an excellent Blood Trait, one handed spears and the powerful Fortify combat option, and Gilden gets extra HP for every unit and low cost soldiers.  Tarth's bows aren't really so useful, and its Blood Trait and Sov Profession is not useful for very long.

So I think the abilities I mentioned in the subject of this thread are powerful, just the way that Tarth works as a faction is not as great as other premade factions.

The Political Machine 2024
Reply #3 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting StevenAus, reply 2
Well, as it has been said, 50% movement cost reduction on all rough terrains AND an elimination of the stop on river penalty is a significant bonus. I don't play Tarth, but I have played a 1.0 Custom Faction with Master Scouts, The Decalon and Enchanters, and I find that these three skills for 4 points (plus a weakness) to be a bargain.
End of StevenAus's quote

I don't necessarily agree with this statement. Play a desert map where most tiles are not forests, rivers, swamps or hills. Although, hills are the most common here the Master Scouts ability does not make a huge bonus. Master scouts is only good on certain types of maps, namely those maps with a lot of rough terrain.

So the problem is that master scouts big bonus on rough terrain maps, while on less rough terrain more temperate or desert maps it becomes much less of an ability and really no bonus at all. The problem with master scouts is the ability to balance it with all type of terrain maps. In overall bonus, I just don't see it as worth 4 points.

I also don't agree with the assessment that ignoring terrain equates to more xp. Each battle does take time to recover from and you just don't necessarily have the mana reserves to recoup quickly enough to get the +50% bonus to xp as was suggested. It would be closer to around +15% to +25%, if there is a bonus.

I know lots of people seem to complain that master scouts is overpowered, but I just don't see it. I think there are other skills that are much more overpowered for the cost. Ask Tuidjy for some good suggestions here because of all his builds he's done to win on ridiculuos or insane does not include master scouts.

Reply #4 from Elemental Forums Top

You made some good points here, and I agree with them. =)

What do you think about Stealth?

Reply #5 from Elemental Forums Top

Stealth is a great trait for new gamers. It allows you to pick and choose your battles for yourself.

Stealth has already been (for the better) limited in its use because although you can ignore monsters for your units, but you cannot ignore them from your cities. Therefore, you do have to be careful about that placement, just like any other faction.

Hence, the roaming monsters do cause some worries for your faction, because you lose the ability to KITE the monsters away from your cities. This is one of the major drawback.

For example, a big monsters is around your city and you need to make sure it doesn't attack it. If you have a weak unit you can get the monsters attention and walk that monster away from your cities. With stealth that is no longer a viable option. Thus, any monster in your territory that is headed towards a city, must be dealt with and killed otherwise you will can lose that city.

I know a lot of people see the positives to the bonus, and forget that there are some negatives to this bonus as well.

Not sure if we need to limit this skill to monsters of strong or more to be immune. Make more sense to have monsters with particular hunting traits that stealth does not work against, but I'm not sure that this would be necessary for this trait.

Reply #6 from Elemental Forums Top

I am failing to see why these abilities need to be nerfed some more... This is not a competitive multiplayer game.  If you think certain abilities are overpowered, then don't use them.  Some people may want to ignore random wandering monsters, or, may want their units move more than 1 tile / turn.  (you can always mod your game anyway)

Reply #7 from Elemental Forums Top

They are fine as is.