[1.0-1.004] Master Scouts

I really don't know why this ability exists. Ignore Monsters. Ignore terrain. All this effort was put into coding the stuff, and then there is an ability to ignore it? Doesn't make sense.

I'd split the ability into three.  There would be a trait that gets no movement penalty in forests, a cheaper one for swamps, a third cheap one for hills, and a double cost ability for being ignored by monsters.  Being able to pass rivers seem especially peculiar - some units end their turn, others ignore the water?  yikes.

GFireflyE +1

So Forest Scouts (2), Swamp Scouts (1), Hill Scouts (1), Stealth (2)?

Then there is the problem that it gives Tarth way too many points.  Maybe they should get Forest Scouts and Stealth only, and a weakness to balance out (since that is four points, and factions normally start with 3)?

It's the being ignored by Monsters part that really puts it over the top IMHO

Maybe it should only protect you from monster armies up to Strong, but not higher?

@StevenAus That at first glance seems reasonable to me. I'll tell you right now as a new player. Not being attacked by monsters is real nice. Gives me a chance to explore and do things. I think over all those that's pretty powerful.

This game needs an ability like Master Scouts for new players, or for those who wish to ignore monsters (why on earth anyone would want to ignore a third of the game is beyond me, but whatever).  Especially for new players, the monsters pose a significant challenge, and being able to engage them on your own terms is great for figuring out how to engage certain monsters.

Master Scouts is currently just the terrain penalty remover.  The Stealth faction trait is the ignoring monsters bonus which has been separated from Master Scouts faction trait.

I like the way you're thinking about Tarth. 

I'd add some abilities to Swamp and Hill Scouts though - maybe give them an initiative bonus fighting in that terrain.  Another possibility would be a bonus to sight radius while on a hill, or stealth that only applies while in a swamp or river tile. 

The stealth, as stated, should be used for new players only, the rest will take other things more interesting....or not? It is ok this way, so nothing else should be done.

The current Master Scouts, it is still one of the best traits (I recognize I always pick it).

If we look the old grandfather (MoM), it had Pathfinder (it could be the same: no penalties), and the skills of Foresting (no penalties in forest), Mountaneering (no penalties in hills, and could walk across mountains), swiming (for rivers/water) and flying.Remember that flying units could only be attacked by flying, ranged and magic...Not totally agree with this, but...

I don't remember if swamps got its own skill, or was modified only by Pathfinding. BTW, I think no skill should modify penalty in swamps...

Taking all that into account, you can guess where I'm I heading:

- The most simple: Do nothing...

- The seconed most simple: Master Scouts takes 2 points. It would be like Foresting + Mountaneering (+ swamps for free, if the case...).

- Create the traits Foresting and Mountaneering, to be selectable. And create swimming (for boats, and sea creatures) and flying (for flying units). This seems more for an expansion...

[1.004] Master Scouts still costs 1 point. Stealth costs 2 points now. Stealth is not as strong as Master Scouts. You can build a couple of spearmen for defending and play carefully without Stealth. Anyway wildland monsters can attack you even if you has Stealth. In other hand, Master Scouts gives you strategic advantage in addition to faster expanding and faster experience gaining.

Suggestion: Ignoring Monsters whould probably be better placed as a souvereign vocation given that has been used for Adventurer adding great choice. Not as a faction trait (might violate the feel a little bit but it should balance out nicely. Moreso than just a few faction points.)

Hunter Vocation might be a good place to let the monsters not go after your troops which also needs a strong boost to compete as a nice extra (so you have to choose either that or free heroes or cheaper Wages or taming beasts ect). Its equally game-changing as other Vocational stuff and imo that whould offer an extra tantalizing option as what you want to play as...

Isn't Scouting an early game unit-trait you can pick for one troop and which affects the whole army the troop is in anyways? I have that option in early game even at drills if I'm not mistaken when designing my troops Don't find that overly strong so not sure where the dislike for getting around faster in diffucult terrain is coming from (can very much understand the dislike Gyrefly put down in the first reply, hence my suggestion above...).
Don't even use it even though I probably should on a unit a stack...
So all in all disagree about the guess that master-scouts trait is even worth it (given that it just takes a single trait slot of a single unit each stack to replicate the effect and its available early enough...) and strongly disagree that stealth is weaker than it or not worth the 2 Points it cost (ranks up there with the most powerful traits allright. Might be the most powerful one of the 2-point costing ones and also takes out a major part of the game.)
Might also be related to me playing a men faction custom kingdom and its just for henchmen? (Remember seeing it with outher factions / normal units too though)
So you can replicate that effect at no trait cost whatsoever with all factions anyways. Not worth a pick in my book...

Scout only affects the unit, not the stack. 

Ah that explains it. Sorry for the confusion. Acceptable trait for 1 Point then imo.

Confusion stemmed from it being listed under army part of the henchmen / unit creation together with other stuff affecting the whole army. Maybe it should be put with the normal traits then?

In 1.004 Tarth gets Rebels as a penalty - which I think balances it out.

I gave master scouts full forest walk and +1 Moves. They then have a unit design trait called Trailblazer that gives the unit all other movement bonuses. It's a nice way to handle it.

Yes. Tarth are balanced by Rebels. But custom races that get Master Scouts for 1 point are not balanced.

Master scout is a must for higher difficulties.  Not only the overland map movement, but also the tactical battles.

Get a warhorse, master scout trait, and higher init and in most tactical battles you can ride circles around the monsters except when you have 2 actions in a row on the initiative queue, then ride in for a swing and use next action to ride out.

It's way too strong for 1 point.

Master scout + betrayer/adventurer + rushing to horses then heros and you can literally sweep through the map with your sovereign and pick up every hero even on the new ridic / insane difficulties.  (looks like AI researches tech at a lower pace in the new patch)

There are far better 1-point traits available. I don't see why it needs nerf now.

Things like Lucky which can be used to stack defense/dodge is far more game-breaking yet it is still just only 1-point trait. I say now with separated with Stealth, Master Scout is fine IMO.

And really, it's Stealth allowing player/AI to do fast expansion, not master scout. You can super-fast expand with Stealth and without Master Scout even in higher difficulties, but you can't do it in reverse thanks to monster aggression.