Tech restricting city spam?

I don't see how it is the "wrong" way to do it.. You didn't give any reasons to saying that..

BUT another way could be what you suggested. If I remember correctly you can increase and decrese how fast the colonie is terformed by throwing more money its way..

So yeah good idea. But mine is simpler

It is the wrong way, and not so simple because then everyone would be forced into researching in one tech tree just so they can get a decent pace of units to rebuild their armies and to expand their territory. As much as you don't like it, aggressive expansion is a play style some people use. It is a strategy game, there are different ways to play. aggressive expansion however has one glaring flaw, weak defense and poor response/reaction time due to distances units have to travel.

It's completely fine if he wants to mod his own game, but I cam promise you that the devs aren't going to restrict cities by tech. 

Also you don't have to build improvements in the city. That is part of the strategy of the game. Do you want to pump out units or would you like to build up a megacity?

You forgot the biggest problem with city spam: low growth. 

People who keep on saying that city spam solves everything are usually relatively recent players. You need to grab a piece of land, sure.  You need to have 3-4 cities by turn 50, or you are not building an Empire, you are hiding your head in the sand, hoping no one will notice you. (Oh, yes, they will)

But to me, it's the same as complaining that you need to research techs, or that you need to adventure with your heroes, or that you need to gather resources.  They are ALL part of the game, and you need to balance them out.

Just try to focus exclusively on spamming cities, to the point you have your capital, and a bunch of level 1 cities that grow by 1 population every 5 turns, and see how well you do.

Initial land grab is something you HAVE to do, just as you HAVE to ramp up your production in your first city, just as you HAVE to bring taxes to none, just as you HAVE to grab resources, or LOSE. (At reasonable difficulties. At low difficulties, you can just conquer stuff with your two heroes and a couple of rushed spearmen.)

The problem is only ONE of those is viable as a strategy in this game.

You keep saying that city spam is a bad thing.. but then you say we have to spam cities at the start or lose.. which is it? The answer is of course.. you have to spam cities at the start.

And there lies the problem. The whole strategy is predetermined for you, any deviation from what the devs have laid out of the list of things you HAVE to do you lose. Whats the point of strategic choice if there is only 1 viable option. Thats what i call False choice. Because while we have a choice.. only 1 is actually viable.

As they are saying the spam city strategy is the Only strategy.. So where is the strategy? strategy.. my head hurts.. 

I still like the tech idea  

But if not that then at least something like what Argol228 with cities in the sense of SOTS 1 & 2.. 

Either way something HAS to change.. 

I think you are imposing your own lack of choice, because every game I play, I play with a different strategy.

I also only use the vanilla sovs, which are designed to play very differently from each other.

As far as city spam goes, this game definitely does not condone that strategy.  If you you want to play a game that requires city spam, load up Civ 3, then get back to me on how bad FE is.

Yeah, but I do not call 4 cities by turn 50 city spam, I call it normal expansion for a fledgling Empire.  That is where we disagree.

You think that building two pioneers in your first city (it takes me 4-5 turns each at the time I build them) and then another each in two new cities is spam.  I think it is what someone who wants to rule the world does.

Really, then start on a large map with 6 or 8 factions and only build 1 or 2 pioneers and let me know how that goes...

Seeing as it takes 9-10 turns to pump out a pioneer.. you do the math... you have to spam them to reach 4 or 5 by turn 50. I define spam as pumping them out over and over.. not getting a chance to build really anything else.

and seeing as there may be only 20-30 city spots on a large map thats pretty much spam.

Huh? You expect to win a game by controlling 2% of the land and resources?  Why would any sane developer allow this?! Trade republics have existed in the real world, and they have grown rich and decadent, and they were gobbled up by the Empires (Roman, Holy Roman, British, etc...) any time the Empire needed something they had, or decided the traders were getting above their station.

Didnt have a choice the GD dragon wouldn't let me out to expand more. But he sure would let the AI by to attack me.

2 or 3 cities is not 2% of the land mass and resources on a large map. There is maybe 20 to 40 city spots depending on the land mass shap which would make it 5-10%

Your math's off.  If your starting city does not have either materials 3 and a forest, or some essence, and you do not have enchanters, or wealthy, or adventurer, you may need 6-7 turns.

But seriously, if you pick a nation/sovereign that is crippled by low materials in the beginning, and draw a shitty initial spot either restart the map, or tough it out.

I personally stopped restarting a while ago, but do not play with combos that will not allow me to take a 2/3/1 city and do well.  I do not build pioneers before I can crank them out in 4-5 turns.  On the other hand, I usualy rush my first pioneer anyway (adventurer or wealthy allows it)

My maths not off i just checked that IN game.. lol

Mat 3 city 9 turns for a pioneer.

You're a new player, so you are forgiven for not knowing. Let me show you a picture. It will be from a ridiculous/ridiculous game... The picture is from turn 142.

Most of the land is fertile, once your dominion has reached it.  As your cities grow, they rejuvenate the land. And furthermore, you need outposts for the resources, or the AIs will come and make outposts in your homelands.  Now, _I_ actually let the AI do that, and I let them develop the resources, and then I dominion push them, but that's a tight rope to walk unless you know what you are doing.

Don't know how it takes you only 4-5 turns. It's at least twice that for me. (not in a game at the moment so I'm going to throw a number out) 12 turns to build one pioneer...means 36 turns to build 3 for three more cities. Pretty close to 50. So for the first 50 turns you're queue is nothing but pioneers. That's spam. Of the remaining 14, you have to somehow fit resource improvements, city improvements, and troops??

I would prefer having the tech to allow 1,2,3,... towns in the Civics tree, allowing 1,2,3,... Fortresses from within the Warfare tree and finally 1,2,3,... Conclaves from within the Magig tree.

First city should not count of course. I fear such an approach would need some code improvements.

Lol i know how the game works I played all the betas. I had probably 8 or 9 outposts.

I'm starting to think you're playing with some mods.. seeing as you think pioneers only take 4 or 5 turns. Or some of your experience is from a beta and those things have changed.

Also you're map you posted proves my point.. there is what 35 city spots on the map? so 3 cities would be 10% of the fertile land. Outposts are another subject entirely.

If you think 3+ pioneers is 'city spam' then this is not the game for you.  You are officially trolling.

City spam = spam until you reach an opponent or have no space to expand.. 5 or 6 cities will usually result in that because the AI is spamming them as well. You forget there is limited number of spots you can place cities. This isnt like Civ where you can place a city anywhere.

Them's are fighting words.

I hate being called a liar, and if I was using mods, I would have said it.  I play on ridiculous/ridiculous, everything normal/balanced/default/etc...  And things have changed very little from .982, productionwise.

I do play well designed sides, but that particular picture is from a standard side/sovereign, and it had A TERRIBLE,  HORRIBLE, WORTHLESS starting location.

My first city may be shit, and I may have to rush the first pioneer.  But by the time I have civics (always my first tech) my two heroes have scouted around, and pretty much every time, they have found a x/4/1+forest or better location.  My first pioneer goes there.  With logging and enchanted hammers, that location produces 20+ materials within 5 turns (more, if I curb unrest, depends on essence, first hero)

But why the hell and I telling you this?  I have posted half a dozen playthroughs.  If you wanted to learn, you would.  But it seems you want things to work like in Civilization.

I play on epic speed so that may be the difference. But I've double checked and 3 mat city = 9 turns for a pioneer.

Also your map you posted proves my point.. there is what 35-40 city spots on the map? so 3 cities would be 8-10% of the fertile land. Outposts are another subject entirely since I don't need pioneers for them. When im talking about pioneer spam im referring purely to building cities.

There's more that 50 cities on that map.  At the time of the screenshot Gilden has 12, Pariden 4, and Yithril 4 or 5.  And the rest of the AIs are still alive and there are unsettled spots.  I'd say 60+, which puts 3 at 5%.

If you are playing on Epic, it may make a difference.  I would not know.  150 turns per game is already a bit on the long side for me.  Is production slower on Epic?  If it is, that would explain things, but you should not discuss turns without specifying that you are not playing or normal.

And you are using enchanters?  Then you have absolutely no excuse for complaining about pioneers tying up your queue.  Although wasting 50 mana on an outpost unless it is a emergency is ridiculously inefficient.

Your post isn't contributing anything to the discussion by calling someone a troll.. 

Anyways. I feel like I'm being forced to play according to someone elses strategy.. 

Either way this isn't the way I want to play which should be ok in a strategy game. If there is only one way to win (as in building lots of pioneers as opposed to have 3 cities and getting resources from outposts) then it isn't a 4x game..