Emperor_Nero Emperor_Nero

Reading Player Reviews

Reading Player Reviews

I've read a couple of player reviews there were low on metacritic and it seems that people think because the races have similar looks that they're the same and that since your settlement gets attacked if you don't protect it and you lose that the game is bad. I don't really get it, maybe it is just because I really enjoy the game and I have a lot of fun - but I don't want to see people rating the game low after 2 hours when this game takes at least 4 or 5 games to get the basic mechanics down. Is this a consequence of the new 'CoD' generation of gamers? What is the average play through of a single player game - all three of them left (joke, joke)? 5 or maybe 10 hours? Hell, I have 5 hours in on a single map of FE and I might be 1/4 of the way through the game. I personally don't care about the graphics of a game as long as the game play was solid. I love dwarf fortress (when playing with a tileset as ASCII gives me a headache from hell).

 

Also, and I was guilty of this with WoM, people think this game is supposed to be MoM with better graphics. 

 

What do you guys think of this?

75,937 views 77 replies
Reply #51 Top

Quoting Fistalis, reply 49



Quoting Bellack,
reply 46

Quoting Fistalis, reply 36


Quoting Bellack,
reply 35


Oh and all the REAL research you do for a movie won't do you much good as would user reviews of the movie, why? becuse a movie could have a good script, good actors and even a director that is concidered good but still put out a POS movie. And you won't know that without the reviews.


 

Generally speaking movies, games etc are worse for reviews than physical products because there is ALOT more subjectivity involved with if its "good" or "bad".

 

Like it or not people have different tastes.. the worst movie ever probably has a few fans. Hell theres people who actually like Grease. Does that mean its a good movie? No. It means they enjoy that movie.

 

Good and bad are themselves subjective terms. Sure there may be a fact or 2 in a review.. but the majority of it is going to be extremely subjective, which makes it useless unless there is an exact copy of yourself running around doing reviews for ya.

 

Now of course you're free to believe that reviews are extremely useful if you'd like. But our difference of opinion on the matter further illustrates my point.


But when you read the reviews you can tell after reading a bunch if the movie or game etc. is something your going to like.  Perhaps I'm not explaining this correctly. But even a bad review can have information in it that can give you an idea on what the product is like.  Yes everyone has different taste which is why you read reviews from all over the spectrum. 

Look I have been using user reviews for years to give me a an idea on if a product would be something I like or not. Mostly is has been Games and movies. And I had discovered that I usally get a pretty good idea on if I will like a movie/game or not.  You look at what the users are saying is bad or good about the movie/game and if I normally like a feature they they either like or dislike then I know hey I am going to like it. 

There are several movies (usally the darker ones) that had bad user reviews how ever because I read them I was able to determine that I was going to like the movie and I did in each instant.

For example if a bad review said: "I found that the negative story was to dark and the scene had a lot of combat with blood." I would say ok that is something I like even though the review is saying this is a negative. 

Another example:  "This is a fun loving story for they whole family"  That would be a big time negative in my book hence I would more likely not watch that


 

Both of those comments are purely subjective though.

A negative story = negative to him/her but that doesn't mean it is negative. Maybe the protagonist struggles through out the movie only to die at the end and he found that negative. But he died having finally completed his lifes dream so maybe to you its a positive life affirming flick.

too dark = okay.. whats TOO dark? or for that matter whats dark. Dark to one person is not necessarily dark to someone else.

a lot of combat and blood.= how much is a lot? 5 mins of combat and a gallon of blood? 55 mins of combat and 3000 gallons of blood?

The only thing that review actually told me was that there was some combat and blood.. no telling how much.

The rest of that tells me nothing about the movie.. it tells me how the reviewer perceives it.  You seem to think that we all perceive things in a similar way. Without a reference on a particular persons frame of mind we have no way of knowing what they consider as dark or fun loving, how much is too much etc etc
End of Fistalis's quote

Those were just quick examples usally more details can be had from the reviews. And after reading reviews for you you can pick up on the meaning what people mean when they say "It is too dark" or "There is too much blood."   And keep in mind that I'm not stopping on just those two points and making a decision. I'm reading a lot of reviews before deciding.  And yes I can most of the time tell if I will like a movie/game buy reading the reviews. Don't just look at the numbers read the reviews.

Reply #52 Top

Quoting parrottmath, reply 51
Quoting Stuie_,
reply 50
quoting postI've read a couple of player reviews there were low on metacritic and it seems that people think because the races have similar looks that they're the same and that since your settlement gets attacked if you don't protect it and you lose that the game is bad.

I've only played Tarth so far, so I can't comment on the differentiation of races. But the second point... the other current TBS games that come to my mind are Civ 5 and Warlock. Both have a mechanism that provides every settlement with an intrinsic value for defense even if units are not garrisoned there. Because of this, I can see that people might find having to build and garrison troops in each and every city tedious. There's a reason these other games removed that requirement...

There is a mechanism here. Each city already has a city garrison to help prevent this problem. But should a city garrison be able to turn back a dragon? You can defend your city up against a lot of minor enemies with the city garrison, just not more powerful monsters. Just recently they upped this garrison and in all fairness if you don't like the vanilla city defense, it's not that hard to mod in yourself and I'm sure one of these mods will be coming around soon.
End of parrottmath's quote

 

...and you can see the quantity and quality of your city defence in the city screen.

Reply #53 Top

Quoting klaxton499, reply 47
Ignore the number and read what they say.  I ignore the "worst game EVER" and "best game EVER" crowd.  I read to identify gameplay features.  As derivative as games are now, a little self awareness is all that is required to find games you'll enjoy. 
End of klaxton499's quote

A thousand times this. I find it preposterous that you can score a game on a 1 to 10 scale to begin with. Modern games are complex, and all have strengths in some areas and weaknesses in others. Sometimes they have great designs, but poor implementation, sometimes the other way around. Sometimes they're ugly but fun. Sometimes they're beautiful but boring. All of that goes into the quality of the game, and I refuse to condense it down to a single score.

With that in mind, there is a lot to learn about a game from professional reviewers (what they leave out can be very revealing), from thoughtful metacritic posters, and from game forums, as well as Let's Play videos of course. By reading closely I've found many a bad scoring game that I love (Romance of the Three Kingdoms XI, which was nonsensically excoriated for being difficult) and avoided many a high scoring one that I'm pretty sure I would have hated (Dragon Age 2, I'm looking at you). 

Reply #54 Top

Quoting sweatyboatman, reply 45



Quoting jackswift85,
reply 44

The funny part about the negative player reviews for D3 is that a whole lot of them say something like "I spent 200 hours playing this game and it sucks!" If the game sucks so much, why did you keep playing the game?


 

This is actually one place where I would only trust a review that had played for a long time.  One of the things about a game like D3 (or FE) is that it comes with the expectation that you will invest a lot of time into it.  In D3 you play for hundreds of hours to build up your character into an immortal demi-god and find out what powers you can unleash.  In FE (and all 4x) you play to explore and conquer while honing your strategies.

I think the problem with D3 is that the more time you spend with it the more it seems like D2 with updated graphics.  People played the crap out of D2, so if they're not feeling like they're getting added depth in D3, they're going to be pissed off.

End of sweatyboatman's quote

That is a really good point. Many of those same critiques by players say that the D3 gameplay is "boring". I guess these gamers were spoiled by Blizzard's early days when they were the 'Pixar' of the gaming industry and kept giving us fun, unique, polished games over and over again. Now we're getting stuck with Cars 2 and gamers are disappointed.

Reply #55 Top

Quoting EmersonPF, reply 53
A thousand times this. I find it preposterous that you can score a game on a 1 to 10 scale to begin with.
End of EmersonPF's quote

I agree... they should have a series of survey questions for each aspect of the game. But this system can be just as abused anyway. There is no good way to get voluteer data to be necessarily good data.

Reply #56 Top

Quoting Frogboy, reply 3
In my experience, there are two types of reviewers (broadly speaking).

The first type is like Chibiabos (and myself to be honest) where we'll give a review based on what we think.

The second type is the type who thinks the *total* averaged score should reflect their personal view and will thus give it a 10 or a 1 to try to affect the total review.  It's those reviewers who ultimately make the player reviews worthless.  If I have a game that is say an 4 out of 5 game, it takes a ton of 5's to counter a single 1 star review.
End of Frogboy's quote

 

Actually, it takes only one 10 to counter a 1 star review.  Both are extreme.  The second type of reviewers cancel each other out in the end.  If those people objectively gave 3's and 7's instead of 0's and 10's, this wouldn't change a thing, average would still be 5.

Let's take your aforementioned 4 out of 5 game: XCOM, for instance.  This was probably the best game I played recently.  Based on the multiplayer chats I had with players, we agree that it is a good game that needs some things to be better, so 4 out of 5 seems reasonable.  This consensus fully reflects in metacritic player average of 8.2.   And XCOM had many people who gave it 0's.

Reply #57 Top

Quoting Sevster11, reply 57
Actually, it takes only one 10 to counter a 1 star review. Both are extreme. The second type of reviewers cancel each other out in the end. If those people objectively gave 3's and 7's instead of 0's and 10's, this wouldn't change a thing, average would still be 5.
End of Sevster11's quote

That's only true if you think you only have '5' game. Say you think you have an '8' game, then it would take a bunch to cancel it out.

Reply #58 Top

That's actually an interesting side effect of the review scale being biased for games. An 'average' game is somewhere around 70, anything 50- is trash and shouldn't be touched, we're not even using the bottom half of the scale. This gives extreme negative reviews more weight than extreme positives: if a typical game deserves a 75, a 0 drags the average down more than a 100 pulls it up, and in our lopsided reviewing system most games belong in the 50-100 range. As metacritic puts it:

 

Why is the breakdown of green, yellow, and red scores different for games?

The reason for this special treatment for games has to do with the games publications themselves. Virtually all of the publications we use as sources for game reviews (a) assign scores on a 0-100 scale (or equivalent) to their reviews, and (b ) are very explicit about what those scores mean. And these publications are almost unanimous in indicating that scores below 50 indicate a negative review, while it usually takes a score in the upper 70s or higher to indicate that the game is unequivocally good. This is markedly different from movies, TV or music, where a score of, say, 3 stars out of 5 (which translates to a 60 out of 100 on our site) can still indicate that a movie is worth seeing or an album is worth buying. Thus, we had to adjust our color-coding for games to account for the different meaning of games scores compared to scores for music, movies and TV.
Reply #59 Top

Quoting Leo, reply 58

Quoting Sevster11, reply 57Actually, it takes only one 10 to counter a 1 star review. Both are extreme. The second type of reviewers cancel each other out in the end. If those people objectively gave 3's and 7's instead of 0's and 10's, this wouldn't change a thing, average would still be 5.

That's only true if you think you only have '5' game. Say you think you have an '8' game, then it would take a bunch to cancel it out.
End of Leo's quote

 

Why does it matter what you think of your own game?  I am sure every developer thinks their game is good.  The reason players reviews exist in the first place is to give them and other players an idea of what the majority thinks.  Sure, the scores are somewhat skewed towards the average score of 5 if you have equal amount of fanboys and haters, but, if that is the case, it simply means your game is not that good.

Reply #60 Top

Quoting Austinvn, reply 59
That's actually an interesting side effect of the review scale being biased for games. An 'average' game is somewhere around 70, anything 50- is trash and shouldn't be touched, we're not even using the bottom half of the scale. This gives extreme negative reviews more weight than extreme positives: if a typical game deserves a 75, a 0 drags the average down more than a 100 pulls it up, and in our lopsided reviewing system most games belong in the 50-100 range. As metacritic puts it:

 


Why is the breakdown of green, yellow, and red scores different for games?
The reason for this special treatment for games has to do with the games publications themselves. Virtually all of the publications we use as sources for game reviews (a) assign scores on a 0-100 scale (or equivalent) to their reviews, and (b ) are very explicit about what those scores mean. And these publications are almost unanimous in indicating that scores below 50 indicate a negative review, while it usually takes a score in the upper 70s or higher to indicate that the game is unequivocally good. This is markedly different from movies, TV or music, where a score of, say, 3 stars out of 5 (which translates to a 60 out of 100 on our site) can still indicate that a movie is worth seeing or an album is worth buying. Thus, we had to adjust our color-coding for games to account for the different meaning of games scores compared to scores for music, movies and TV.
End of Austinvn's quote

 

You brought up a good point.  In games, the problem is not player reviews, which are fair as a sum, but rather critic reviews which are grossly inflated and influenced by things like how much advertisement money a game studio spent on their site.

Reply #61 Top

Quoting Sevster11, reply 57

Quoting Frogboy, reply 3In my experience, there are two types of reviewers (broadly speaking).

The first type is like Chibiabos (and myself to be honest) where we'll give a review based on what we think.

The second type is the type who thinks the *total* averaged score should reflect their personal view and will thus give it a 10 or a 1 to try to affect the total review.  It's those reviewers who ultimately make the player reviews worthless.  If I have a game that is say an 4 out of 5 game, it takes a ton of 5's to counter a single 1 star review.

 

Actually, it takes only one 10 to counter a 1 star review.  Both are extreme.  The second type of reviewers cancel each other out in the end.  If those people objectively gave 3's and 7's instead of 0's and 10's, this wouldn't change a thing, average would still be 5.

Let's take your aforementioned 4 out of 5 game: XCOM, for instance.  This was probably the best game I played recently.  Based on the multiplayer chats I had with players, we agree that it is a good game that needs some things to be better, so 4 out of 5 seems reasonable.  This consensus fully reflects in metacritic player average of 8.2.   And XCOM had many people who gave it 0's.
End of Sevster11's quote

Depends on the sample size.

For every XCOM there's a Diablo 3.

Reply #62 Top

I Have to add my 2 cents here.
Even though any ratings given out to games are arbitrary. I do not agree with the statements that they have absolutely no value, and could easily be rated in colour codings, or that people tend to rate in extremes.

It is like asking a person if he liked the dinner he just had.
The chances are very low you will get an answer like: "It was the best meal I have ever tasted in my life", or a reply that touches the other opposite of the spectrum. Unless you are dealing with a 5-year old, most rational people can give moderate ratings. In fact, I think that people tend to give lower ratings, and avoid giving extremely high ratings.

Unless you are a teenage girl at the eve of your favourite live boyband concert, or your average kid with a severe sugar trip, people tend to devalue rather than overvalue.

Reply #63 Top

Quoting Frogboy, reply 62
Depends on the sample size.

For every XCOM there's a Diablo 3.
End of Frogboy's quote

 

But that is just a major you know what from Blizzard.  In movie industry, an opening weekend of a big movie is arguably the most important event judging the success or failure of the film.  A decision to make Diablo 3 online-only without having sufficient network infrastructure to handle the volume probably deserves the initial scores it got.  A common practice in gaming industry, and which is not acceptable in other software fields, is consciously shipping products containing bugs and defects.  While not exactly a bug, Blizzard was simply too cheap to buy enough logon servers to accommodate all the requests.  You live and die by decisions you make.

Reply #64 Top

Quoting wyndesmit, reply 63
I Have to add my 2 cents here.
Even though any ratings given out to games are arbitrary. I do not agree with the statements that they have absolutely no value, and could easily be rated in colour codings, or that people tend to rate in extremes.

It is like asking a person if he liked the dinner he just had.
The chances are very low you will get an answer like: "It was the best meal I have ever tasted in my life", or a reply that touches the other opposite of the spectrum. Unless you are dealing with a 5-year old, most rational people can give moderate ratings. In fact, I think that people tend to give lower ratings, and avoid giving extremely high ratings.

Unless you are a teenage girl at the eve of your favourity live boyband concert, or your average kid with a severe sugar trip, people tend to devalue rather than overvalue.
End of wyndesmit's quote

 

If you are familiar with MBTI, some personality types are more likely say that "it was the best meal they have ever tasted" or "the best game they ever played" than others.  That does not mean they are 5 years old, it just means that's how they perceive life.  Only roughly half of people are thinkers, and less than a fifth are rationals, but if everyone was a thinker and a rational, the world would be an awfully gloomy place.

Reply #65 Top

I think player reviews are worthless, as I've said many times in many places. People tend to be drama queens or fan boys. So you see tons and tons of exceedingly high and low reviews on games. Very little actually reviewing for content, mostly either gushing over something because they think it should be great or hating on it because it wasn't precisely what they wanted in every way. Also people will often hand out a negative review based on something that isn't related to the game content itself, even for games they don't own. The number of 1 start reviews I've seen because people think they don't like a DRM system for a game they don't have is massive.

Professional reviews have problems too, don't get me wrong, but users reviews tend to be totally worthless.

I've seen it with the new X-Com game. There are people on the forums who just spit bile and demand a refund because it isn't just a HD remake of the original X-Com. The fact that they changed things is completely unacceptable in their minds. You'd think the game was worthless by those, but then you play it and it turns out to be fun, though quite different than the original.

Reply #66 Top

So when are we going to get some pro reviews? I understand that given the release no journalist could have reasonably played long enough to write a full review, but when will they come?

Reply #68 Top

Quoting Frogboy, reply 62
...For every XCOM there's a Diablo 3.
End of Frogboy's quote

To be fair though Brad, Diablo III actually deserves it's incredibly low user score: it really is that bad.

Reply #69 Top

Quoting ZehDon, reply 69

Quoting Frogboy, reply 62...For every XCOM there's a Diablo 3.
To be fair though Brad, Diablo III actually deserves it's incredibly low user score: it really is that bad.
End of ZehDon's quote

 

As someone said earlier, if you think Diablo 3 is a bad game you have become jaded about the passion of gaming. Diablo 3 was a disappointment, but not a completely bad game. If it were renamed and released by a different company I think a lot of people would think differently. 

Reply #70 Top

Quoting Austinvn, reply 59
That's actually an interesting side effect of the review scale being biased for games. An 'average' game is somewhere around 70, anything 50- is trash and shouldn't be touched, we're not even using the bottom half of the scale. This gives extreme negative reviews more weight than extreme positives: if a typical game deserves a 75, a 0 drags the average down more than a 100 pulls it up, and in our lopsided reviewing system most games belong in the 50-100 range. As metacritic puts it:

 


Why is the breakdown of green, yellow, and red scores different for games?
The reason for this special treatment for games has to do with the games publications themselves. Virtually all of the publications we use as sources for game reviews (a) assign scores on a 0-100 scale (or equivalent) to their reviews, and (b ) are very explicit about what those scores mean. And these publications are almost unanimous in indicating that scores below 50 indicate a negative review, while it usually takes a score in the upper 70s or higher to indicate that the game is unequivocally good. This is markedly different from movies, TV or music, where a score of, say, 3 stars out of 5 (which translates to a 60 out of 100 on our site) can still indicate that a movie is worth seeing or an album is worth buying. Thus, we had to adjust our color-coding for games to account for the different meaning of games scores compared to scores for music, movies and TV.
End of Austinvn's quote

 

Whats funny is the reviewers who write the reviews tend to disagree with metacritic about what their scores mean.

As adam explains a 2 out of 5 stars is not = to 40% on his scale.

 

Reply #71 Top

Quoting Frogboy, reply 62



Quoting Sevster11,
reply 57
Quoting Frogboy, reply 3In my experience, there are two types of reviewers (broadly speaking).The first type is like Chibiabos (and myself to be honest) where we'll give a review based on what we think.The second type is the type who thinks the *total* averaged score should reflect their personal view and will thus give it a 10 or a 1 to try to affect the total review.  It's those reviewers who ultimately make the player reviews worthless.  If I have a game that is say an 4 out of 5 game, it takes a ton of 5's to counter a single 1 star review. Actually, it takes only one 10 to counter a 1 star review.  Both are extreme.  The second type of reviewers cancel each other out in the end.  If those people objectively gave 3's and 7's instead of 0's and 10's, this wouldn't change a thing, average would still be 5.Let's take your aforementioned 4 out of 5 game: XCOM, for instance.  This was probably the best game I played recently.  Based on the multiplayer chats I had with players, we agree that it is a good game that needs some things to be better, so 4 out of 5 seems reasonable.  This consensus fully reflects in metacritic player average of 8.2.   And XCOM had many people who gave it 0's.


Depends on the sample size.

For every XCOM there's a Diablo 3.
End of Frogboy's quote

I'd have to disagree here. Fron what I've seen over the years out of every 10 games only 3 are worth buying and playing. The rest are just fillers and hopers to get revenue until the better games arrive. It really takes a lot for a game to really stand out these days and even games that get 90's to 95's aren't always great games. The 3 out of 10 still stands even if all 10 got 90's.

Reply #72 Top

Quoting Emperor_Nero, reply 70



Quoting ZehDon,
reply 69
Quoting Frogboy, reply 62...For every XCOM there's a Diablo 3.To be fair though Brad, Diablo III actually deserves it's incredibly low user score: it really is that bad.


 

As someone said earlier, if you think Diablo 3 is a bad game you have become jaded about the passion of gaming. Diablo 3 was a disappointment, but not a completely bad game. If it were renamed and released by a different company I think a lot of people would think differently. 
End of Emperor_Nero's quote

One of the things that made Diablo III a "bad" game was it didn't give us "more" like Diablo II did for the origional Diablo. Diablo II moved on an away from Diablo I whereas Diablo III basically stayed in the same spot with a smaller storyline and an easily figured out plot from the beginning. For $60 it wasn't worth it. Diablo III felt more like an Expansion than a brand new game with brand new elements and a whole different story. I fell into the story of Diablo II so hard and it made me wish for a "movie" of it. I finished Diablo III within 2 days and was bored shiiteless. To me it was a "Ripoff" of $60 but fortunately I found a way to get my money back before time ran out. Diablo III is too much about the real money auction house and inferno was way too hard in the beginning because of the real money auction house and Blizzard wanting to money grub every penny they could out of players.

So it deserved the low user score it got based on what the users saw out of the game and not how well the game was "made". Users don't really care about that kind of crap they care about what the game "gives" to them and delivers upon its promises. Diablo III didn't deliver.

Reply #73 Top

Diablo III is no mystery.  Blizzard was looking for the next WOW (i.e. revenue stream).  Some poor executive had it all figured out... a cash store for items.

Q: How the *bleep* is a loot driven game supposed to work when you can "buy" better gear than you can find?  They removed the goal!  The driver.  Brilliant!

Reply #74 Top

Quoting klaxton499, reply 74
Diablo III is no mystery.  Blizzard was looking for the next WOW (i.e. revenue stream).  Some poor executive had it all figured out... a cash store for items.

Q: How the *bleep* is a loot driven game supposed to work when you can "buy" better gear than you can find?  They removed the goal!  The driver.  Brilliant!
End of klaxton499's quote

Well, in this case the goal is the same; get better loot. But they just made it so much easier to spend real money to achieve that goal. I think it's actually a brilliant profit making strategy. Diablo 3 will probably make 20 times more revenue than Torchlight 2 ever will. Too bad the game and customer experience suffers in the meantime.

Reply #75 Top

Quoting Emperor_Nero, reply 70
...if you think Diablo 3 is a bad game you have become jaded about the passion of gaming...
End of Emperor_Nero's quote

Sorry to say this - I hate being outright dismissive - but no: if someone thinks Diablo III is a bad game, there isn't an excuse, reason or explanation that invalidates their opinion; to me, Diablo III is the perfect example of a 2 Star game.

I believe that Diablo III is a bad game because it is boring.  It's the greatest sin a game can make, because all a game has to do is entertain.  I can overlook the lacklustre art style, the insulting bad story, the horrendous DRM and all the horrible lag issues it creates, the complete removal of character customisation, and the absolute focus on the Auction House if the gameplay at it's core is terrific.
Unfortunately, Diablo III's gameplay is flat, slow and boring.  Everything else - and I do mean everything else - is irrelevant to me; the game is not fun, and so it is a horribly bad game with a US$100,000,000.00 budget.
I give it 2 stars because it's pretty stable code and I feel bad crapping all over people's years of hard work.