[Lore/Balance Aspect] Make Starting Traits For Champions Relevant to Their Bio, And Give Traits as if They Levelled from L1.

Very important from polish and immersion perspectives!  Please fix!

Can you PLEASE stop bombarding these forums with bumps of your own and other people's bug reports which have nothing to add except a plea for the devs? It will force the rest of us to start doing the same thing with our reports so we can avoid being pushed to the bottom by your bumps, and will only confuse the devs (which, by the way, do read these forums, in case you were wondering, and realise that the bugs need to be fixed ...)

Also, it makes it very difficult to maintain any sense of priority or materiality - everything can't be "very important, please fix"...

At the VERY LEAST, wait until the new version comes today and re-post any remaining, critical bugs and issues under a [0.984] heading AFTER you've played the game for a while to see if perhaps the bug has been fixed... this is what I plan to do anyway.

I appreciate your eagerness to make this a perfect game, but take my advice: in these forums (and in real life) it pays to be a little patient sometimes

Well, I did go all the way to all the remaining bug reports from 0.983 (page 5 of Recent Posts), so it was only bugs that haven't been fixed from previous versions that were excluded.  But yes, you do make a very good point.  I'll wait for the next version, play it a while, then post any bug or suggestion report that hasn't already been posted, and if it has been posted, post my new stuff or support for it in the existing thread, without resorting to new threads or bumps.

Sorry about that!  I guess I got very carried away.

I really don't think this kind of general complaint/suggestion is useful in any way. There are hundreds of champions. They aren't going to go through them just because of a 1-minute forum post.

Be specific. WHO has traits that doesn't make sense?

I TOTALLY agree with Heavenfall, and this is a very good illustration of a point I am trying to make as well - there are 2 ways to bump this specific thread, one of which is not useful at all, while the other is extremely useful:

OPTION 1: Post a "yes devs please do this !!!" plea offering no more information - NOT USEFUL

OPTION 2: Invest the time to go through the champions and identify those traits that are unbalanced, and make a second post where you propose specific changes to specific champions that the devs can implement - USEFUL

StevenAus, my general point is that instead of wasting your own time with countless "meaningless bumps" as I call them, you may want to spend that time making certain that your bug reports are well-documented, with specific information and with screenshots or savegames where appropriate.

I don't want to sound like I'm lecturing you but I hope this helps to channel your energy and eagerness a bit more constructively

As A'Zoth is the first one that comes to my mind.  His traits say he's a mage, but his bio talks about how he killed all his childhood peers because of how good a warrior he is.  There are a few others in my current game, but it's too late at night for me to start up a game just to look for it.

Also, I have to agree with Ins.  Also, what a dev considers a critical issue is not the same as what we consider critical.  CTDs are a critical issue, as is freezing.  Lore issues are something that should be addressed, yes, but the game works just fine regardless of what Herpicus' bio says. (For the record, he's actually a renowned scholar and philosopher, and one of the greatest orators his country has ever seen.  His skill with a blade is also unmatched.)

Please tell me that he starts with a sword to go with his bio.

I think the difficulty the devs face is with ever-expanding content added while balancing is taking place, it's hard to maintain the two. I suggest making a list for them to save them the time of having to do all of this themselves. It's much more likely to get done if the community can do the legwork and just tell them what/how to change things. Derek sure seems to love suggestions like these.

I'm planning on going through at least some of the champions in the XML files and balancing them via the bios and say, 3 starting traits and +1 trait per level above 1.  Obviously I wouldn't tend to give them only the most powerful traits.  At the very least I would change the traits of the champions that have conflicting traits such as the Trog who is meant to be a swordsman who has an Axe and Path of the Mage.

Just out of interest, how many champions are there in the default game?  Is it something like 50, or is it 60 or even 80 or more?

Lizbeth the Light.  Leadanna.  First off why do these champions have weaknesses when others do not?  That just makes them even suckier.  Second they are heavy on the governor line, and come with no weapons.  Where as other champions from other kingdoms can come with a decent axe or dagger and NO injuries.  A guy like Endis Steelhand has own special spell.  Maybe its bad luck but those two weak wonders of the world come up more than not when I play a kingdom.

Sorry if this sounds like a hate fest, but I vented. 

I agree with the OP.  There are too many, especially the higher level ones, who are mages, often with the weakness trait, that are described as being warriors.  And generally, there are just far too many that are path of the mage.

I disagree that traits have to come as if a champion was leveled up starting from level 1.  In fact, I don't want it that way.  I want these heroes to be unique.  I want them to have combinations that you can't get any other way (i.e. Path of the Mage + Lore II, Path of the Mage + Path of the Warrior.).  Their starting values should all be different.  Some dude may not have as many traits as his level would dictate, but he comes with a unique spell and a companion.  Some dude may have more traits than his level would dictate, but has weaknesses.  Please don't make the heroes conform to some norm (i.e. x traits per level and no weaknesses = boring).

I did a total rebalance on these in my mod and it took hours of time. There are just too many damn heroes. Maybe this would be a good job for an intern that has no other skills and lots of free time. I am going to hire a day worker from Home Depot to do mine next time. It's just too much work.

i agree absolutely

Good points.

Totally agreed with this.   However, I also agree that a lot of the champions need work. Path of the Governers...in full armour to start?... with warrior traits? - several of them are just odd.

First thing I'll do on release  to the XML is make sure all the Champions are either unique or "blank slates" so every faction can get something cool or something they can mould to their liking.  

Agreed as the game immersion takes a big hit when they are nothing like the description.

Az'aroth switched form Path of the Mage to Path of the Warrior (don't know what was going on there)

Lisbeth given a Monks staff instead of a normal staff

Leadanna loses the Scarred trait and picks up Merchant II instead

For my own 2 cents I appreciate everyone's input.  You guys have no idea how valuable it is to me and how much of an improvement I see in the game because of it, so I will never be critical of anyone offering any feedback they take the time to offer.  It is a gift.  But specifics certainly are more actionable than more general feedback.

Yay!

I generally agree.

I don't think you people realize how funny Sean is.  That was really funny, but probably flew right over people's heads.

I totally got it.  It was a inside joke about boobs, right?

And we love to give it. It's a hard line, though. I don't want to tell you as devs what to do. You're in charge of the game, and my suggestions may not make any sense because of constraints I don't know about. But, I'm sure folks here would be happy to give not only the problem, but the fix, too, especially for things like XML tweaks.

What say you, fellow forum dwellers? Shall we endeavor to fix this fair game?

Aye, and this shall be the thread in which we fix it.

I mean, for this type of issue.

Champion Myrella, Kingdom side, level 5 is described as being a master warrior with her mace, is path of mage.

Probably should have a mace, too, if she doesn't have one.