My collection of bugs/problems from playing 10+h of Beta5b

from Elemental Forums

Hi,

let me be a good beta tester and give my collection of bugs/problems.

0. Let us see all the units in a stack. I often kill some weak monsters only to find another force of monsters there that is usually 2x or 3x stronger. Also computer likes to have 4-5 stacks of troops and I got no clue about it until I start killing them one by one. This is a must have. I don't plan to play a full version if this is not implemented. Sorry to say so and in such a way but it is a deal breaker in this day and age. If there is a way to already see this and I am stupid for know knowing it I apologize :D

1. Coal Stones need to be accounted for when displaying monster difficulty. It cannot say Weak or anything near that if a monster has this ability.

2. Cities need better sight range. Units inside city need better sight range. Once I remove unit one square outside the city I can see a lot. It is stupid to keep a unit outside city all the time. That role is for scouts and to check out neutral/enemy area. Basic sight range of cities should be minimum the sight range of stationed units (not city guard) and maximum Zone of Control of the city (unless units inside see more).

3. List of units/cities/quests on the left needs to be scrollable when you got city screen open as the city circle in the bottom left corner covers a lot of these icons.

4. if I got a city open and the game is waiting for me to place down a building and I click on another city in city list on the left border of screen the game does not select the new city yet and you can still place the building in previously selected city

5. Remove placing new buildings if you don't click on a spot for building. Now if I open build screen and click outside the city (for whatever reason) the building gets placed down. If I wanted to place down the building I would have clicked build or clicked on one of the highlighted spots. I place so many unwanted buildings this way and it is SO irritating.

6. When you only got one hero and you get a new item only having options OK or EQUIP is not enough. We also need a GO TO INVENTORY option. I don't have a clue if the new item is better for my character from that screen and clicking OK is stupid as then I need to click more to get to inventory. When you got multiple heroes and get a new item you got a TRADE option which does what I want.

7. We need a way to set up our army placement before combat starts.

8. Enemy units still behave like idiots during combat. When I use ranged units they don't do their full move to minimize damage but move like 2 squares and give me free shots lol.

9. Magic is not taken correctly into account when determining faction power. I played Cersea and fought Magnar and his army of Juggernauts and many other high armor/high HP/high damage units. I killed like 5 full armies with fireball and haste and lost one wolf (I got from magic item) and one summoned warg. I fought all of them with 2 heroes, familiar, and those 2 wolves. The game should recognize that my main hero that does 70 damage per fireball and has 400+ mana for casting is 2x or 3x stronger then pure melee units. Magnar has a fair bigger number of faction points when we started fighting.

10. Let us build or determine how roads should go. Automatic placement of roads is terrible.

11. Heroes level too fast or tech/normal units don't research/build fast enough. Probably both. By the time I get proper units my heroes already own anything but strongest of monsters (especially caster ones). Actually you don't need any extra units but mages as they bypass high armor units which are normally most challenging of monsters.

12. There is not enough food per cities. Buildings give way too little and you have to wait way to long to build or research new ones. Growth is already a good limit on how fast cities grow, food should not be such a bit limit. Maybe it fits thematically but it is so stupid and boring to play with. Keep food limits for your campaign that you said FE will have.

13. I got selected to move me to new units once my current one runs out of movement points (or something like this). So I exit combat, level up screen shows up but camera has already moved away (I think same happens with new item popup). Wait with move until we level up/decide what to do with new item.

14. When I look at list of units on left border of screen I cannot know without clicking which ones still have movement points left and how much.

15. Movement is way to slow currently or there is too much areas that slow down units. In CIv games you could get upgrade for almost all slow units to reduce penalty when moving through woods/mountains/others. We need something similar here. Main hero leading the group should decide on movement of whole group or at least the movement should be average between fastest and slowest member.

16. I had a bug with invisible enemy Outpost. It only became visible once I conquered it (for 2nd time; I took it and Magnar took it back and then it became invisible.

16a. There was a dragon lair inside ZoC of that outpost. That dragon never went to destroy it lol. He also kept ignoring Magnar troops that were 1 square away from him although he could have killed them. But he was happy to chase my units around lol.

17. When a building finishes and I go to place another one in empty queue I need to be able to quickly see what was the last building/troop I done there. This becomes a problem when I got multiple new cities and makes city management difficult. List of done stuff on right side of screen is not enough or good enough to be only such information.

18. When units finish in a city (I don't have on that units automatically garrison when done), I often have problems with figuring out where they are and then need to look for them and click on them on left screen border list of units. Put a flag or something on units so we can see them easier (this only becomes a problem when cities are bigger and more developed and take more then one small square)

19. When I got a group of units and I want to remove one and move it away often that units does not move away and I cannot even get it to show in the square until I remove then other units it was part of.

20. I still have bad mouse issues when I am trying to CTRL+click units so I can select some and not all.

There are other bugs I ran into but I think this is enough from me for now. Let other beta testers do their part as well :)

11,966 views 13 replies
Reply #1 from Elemental Forums Top

Great post.  Agree with all points except 12, 14, and 15.  Regarding number 14, units have a highlighting border if they are still able to move.

Reply #2 from Elemental Forums Top

For the most part I think this is a fine post and I agree with nearly everything in it, but I do disagree with this point:

12. There is not enough food per cities. Buildings give way too little and you have to wait way to long to build or research new ones. Growth is already a good limit on how fast cities grow, food should not be such a bit limit. Maybe it fits thematically but it is so stupid and boring to play with. Keep food limits for your campaign that you said FE will have.
End of quote

I think the rate of food access is fine. There are options for controlling food supply. You can choose to build on higher grain tiles at the cost of lower material tiles, you can stress civics research for agricultural structures, you can try to place cities for river access, you can enchant cities with nature's bounty or gentle rain, you can make more towns than conclaves & forts, so that you can make more of the bakery line of improvements, etc.

And honestly, I am of the opinion that not every city should reach level 5. Level 5 cities should be a minority of your cities, and it should take time and energy to reach it. If you see your cities creeping up to the food cap, reasearch some ag improvements, cast some +grain spells, consider specializing more cities as towns for more +food-for-entire-kingdom buildings, and utilize the tools already in the game. I think there might actually be TOO much food in the game as it stands, my last game I had very little problem hitting level 5 with most of my cities. Being able to make multiple towns for multiple bakeries/butchers/etc is a powerful tool.

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Reply #3 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting cardinaldirection, reply 1
Great post.  Agree with all points except 12, 14, and 15.  Regarding number 14, units have a highlighting border if they are still able to move.
End of cardinaldirection's quote

This is true, but the border highlight does not always update properly, sometimes the unit must be clicked on again to force it to refresh. The feature just needs to be tweaked a little.

Reply #4 from Elemental Forums Top

0. [...] If there is a way to already see this
End of quote

You can cycle through the stack by clicking on it. The armies are often so similar, that you can't tell how many there are, though, so your point is still valid.

Some sort of numbering or perhaps a window that showed all armies would be nice

Reply #5 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Purest, reply 5

You can cycle through the stack by clicking on it. The armies are often so similar, that you can't tell how many there are, though, so your point is still valid.

Some sort of numbering or perhaps a window that showed all armies would be nice
End of Purest's quote

 

This only shows 2 or 3 armies - if there are more than that it won't cycle through them all

Reply #6 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Poko8, reply 6
This only shows 2 or 3 armies - if there are more than that it won't cycle through them all
End of Poko8's quote

Oh ok. Thanks.

Reply #7 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting CogBurn, reply 2
For the most part I think this is a fine post and I agree with nearly everything in it, but I do disagree with this point:


quoting post12. There is not enough food per cities. Buildings give way too little and you have to wait way to long to build or research new ones. Growth is already a good limit on how fast cities grow, food should not be such a bit limit. Maybe it fits thematically but it is so stupid and boring to play with. Keep food limits for your campaign that you said FE will have.

I think the rate of food access is fine. There are options for controlling food supply. You can choose to build on higher grain tiles at the cost of lower material tiles, you can stress civics research for agricultural structures, you can try to place cities for river access, you can enchant cities with nature's bounty or gentle rain, you can make more towns than conclaves & forts, so that you can make more of the bakery line of improvements, etc.

And honestly, I am of the opinion that not every city should reach level 5. Level 5 cities should be a minority of your cities, and it should take time and energy to reach it. If you see your cities creeping up to the food cap, reasearch some ag improvements, cast some +grain spells, consider specializing more cities as towns for more +food-for-entire-kingdom buildings, and utilize the tools already in the game. I think there might actually be TOO much food in the game as it stands, my last game I had very little problem hitting level 5 with most of my cities. Being able to make multiple towns for multiple bakeries/butchers/etc is a powerful tool.
End of CogBurn's quote

I know all these options and I used them all. It is still way too slow. Also I don't want my cities all to get to 5 but once they reach lvl 2 most of them will stop, then you need to spend 30+ turns researching and building to move it a bit. And then a bit more. In my first game my main city was still lvl 2 150+ turns into the game. It was hilarious. And I really did do anything in my power. Built all food buildings, put +1 grain enchant, build food structures in one town and then next. Only a loooot later it was lvl 3. If I wanted to play low city number game like you can in Civ games which is much more fun I would not be able to because of food. In civ you are limited by happiness, in FE by Growth. It already takes forever for your city to get enough population for next level, it should not have two limits for one mechanic.

As it is now, it makes you spam cities as having one and more growth will still limit you by food and your city will quickly stop gaining population. Also you spend so much time researching these tech and building these buildings and get almost nothing in return. Any proper AI will roll over you if you do this (and players later when MP is available).

Reply #8 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting TorinReborn, reply 8
I know all these options and I used them all. It is still way too slow. Also I don't want my cities all to get to 5 but once they reach lvl 2 most of them will stop, then you need to spend 30+ turns researching and building to move it a bit. And then a bit more. In my first game my main city was still lvl 2 150+ turns into the game. It was hilarious. And I really did do anything in my power. Built all food buildings, put +1 grain enchant, build food structures in one town and then next. Only a loooot later it was lvl 3. If I wanted to play low city number game like you can in Civ games which is much more fun I would not be able to because of food. In civ you are limited by happiness, in FE by Growth. It already takes forever for your city to get enough population for next level, it should not have two limits for one mechanic.

As it is now, it makes you spam cities as having one and more growth will still limit you by food and your city will quickly stop gaining population. Also you spend so much time researching these tech and building these buildings and get almost nothing in return. Any proper AI will roll over you if you do this (and players later when MP is available).
End of TorinReborn's quote

I can't say I've ever had my cities stop dead in the level 2 range, but I'm fairly proactive about keeping my food cap up... Still level 2 150+ turns into the game? I mean no disrespect, but you're doing something wrong.

Reply #9 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting CogBurn, reply 9

Quoting TorinReborn, reply 8I know all these options and I used them all. It is still way too slow. Also I don't want my cities all to get to 5 but once they reach lvl 2 most of them will stop, then you need to spend 30+ turns researching and building to move it a bit. And then a bit more. In my first game my main city was still lvl 2 150+ turns into the game. It was hilarious. And I really did do anything in my power. Built all food buildings, put +1 grain enchant, build food structures in one town and then next. Only a loooot later it was lvl 3. If I wanted to play low city number game like you can in Civ games which is much more fun I would not be able to because of food. In civ you are limited by happiness, in FE by Growth. It already takes forever for your city to get enough population for next level, it should not have two limits for one mechanic.

As it is now, it makes you spam cities as having one and more growth will still limit you by food and your city will quickly stop gaining population. Also you spend so much time researching these tech and building these buildings and get almost nothing in return. Any proper AI will roll over you if you do this (and players later when MP is available).

I can't say I've ever had my cities stop dead in the level 2 range, but I'm fairly proactive about keeping my food cap up... Still level 2 150+ turns into the game? I mean no disrespect, but you're doing something wrong.
End of CogBurn's quote
No, I researched more magic and warfare as I was expecting to run into AI and have to fight him. Which happened. And if I wasted all that time researching food only I would have lvl 3 city faster but nothing to defeat AI. I play on challenging.

All I want is the fun of developing cities like in Civ games together with other FE stuff. Currently that is not possible.

Reply #10 from Elemental Forums Top

If you want big cities you need to research the right techs in the Civic tree. This makes sense to me. (It also helps if you have 2 or 3 towns building the improvements which increase food for all cities in your empire).

In general an excellent list of bugs though!

Reply #11 from Elemental Forums Top

Let me add more problems:

21. We need to be able to stop city and unit enchantments directly from city screen and unit screen. If I want to remove Enchanted Hammers from my city and add Growth I should not need to go to mana screen and dispel there. That screen is useful when we want to do general maintenance of mana spending but not for specific cases. 

22. Also I noticed a lot of anti-unrest building at higher level of different buildings. Unless you conquer enemy towns and don't have those connected to your empire Unrest is not a problem. And conquered cities don't want to build high level buildings that build forever to battle unrest

Reply #12 from Elemental Forums Top

I am writing everything down and making sure it makes it into my balance mod. So many good observations here. I especially like the faction power stuff.

Reply #13 from Elemental Forums Top

I wanted to add a bit more why I think current food/growth mechanic is not good. 

Well maybe it is but not for my playstyle. I played all Civ games and always tried to avoid building many cities. Often my extra city would be what I would conquer. I would build many cities only if I needed resources to be able to build stuff. 

As I said current food/growth mechanics in FE don't support this. Let me explain by comparing with Civ (it needs to be done, just like any RTS is compared to Starcraft or any MMORPG to WoW and any aRPG to Diablo series). 

In Civ games if try to expand your city does not grow. Time you spend building settlers cities is not growing. Down the line that costs you money, research and production. It also costs you extra because now you got to support your second city and third and so on. It also costs you turns that you are not producing something else. Yes long term more cities will give you more of everything. The trick is in your options until then.

In Civ games if you don't expand your one city grows all the time, your total immediate research and production rises much faster then by expanding. And best part you don't fill your production queue with settlers. What do you do? You build wonders. Wonders give big benefits and those are felt immediately. At the same time you research higher level tech and outtech your enemy. You are weak to rushes and have to accomplish something until the moment where it pays of to expand early and plenty.

In FE if you stay on one city you get nothing. You have to keep researching food tech and building food buildings. You don't get an advantage. Pioneers build fast and don't really slow your growth. Getting your city to level early just means you will get to build more food stuff just to keep your ONE city growing. So the advantage of having your queue free of pioneers is spent on building food. That is stupid. Where are wonders? Where are tech stuff? Why is my only option to spam pioneers and mass cities?!