[Balance] Spell of Making / Tech Victory

It's been my experience that this tech comes waay to easy and soon. It's like almost in the middle of magic tree. Needs to be farther back, like at the end.

Didn't expect any of the victories to be easy.

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I kind of really agree with this, its should be a lategame answer to people stalling, not a midgame "Muhaha I win button"

Sincerely
~ Kongdej

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I totally disagree. I find that currently conquest is usually easier to get then either of these victories. If anything the other victory conditions should be made sooner but more competitive. Right now the other victory conditions feel like things you do if you are too bored to go for conquest.

The quest victory is all right because it makes you explore the world and fight tough monsters to win. The first quest could be easier and then they should get harder so it feels like something you work towards an entire game, and don't do in order to end a game you have already one. You could also add special rewards that make questing and exploring easier.

Magic though is just a generic civilization or wonder win right now. It really is what you do if your winning but can't be bothered to try and conquer the other players. In addition to requiring 1 of each shard perhaps the spell of making could also need for the casting sovereign to have a certain portion of the Shard Mastery output of all the players, say over half although the number would change depending on the number of players. The % amount of all players would be listed in the victory condition window. Shard Mastery would be granted by shards and various magical buildings. With upgraded shards and the current Forge of the Overlord buildings granting large amounts of Shard Mastery. You could even change it so each tower is a world achievement and unique and scatter them among the magic tech tree. Thus players going for a magic victory would have to plan it from the start and compete amongst each other to amass the most Shard Mastery and magic tech. This would be much more organic and interesting I think then the current system.

Alliance victory could also use some work since it mostly triggers when you conquer everyone but that one guy you allied with. That's not much of a diplomatic victory.

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My hope is that all victories are in the late game. I suspect conquest will get harder as the AI plays better. It just seems an I win button and I don't have to bother doing anything else.

I also wonder that, do the AI even know? and secondly do they care? There's a popup in the faction power window. I assume this is to let everyone know.

If everyone did declare war on you and tried to stop you, it would take some kind of thought to pull off - instead of just 'going for it' as soon as you get it.

I think the AI should respond by saying in their own witty comments and declaring war. You'd have to prove you have some military behind you and not just be the fastest tech researcher.

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Indeed, starting casting the Mastery spell should work like in the original MoM: every other wizard gets to know about it and wars are declared automatically.

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I think they should only only 1 of each tower(for spell of making) in the world instead of just one per a faction. That way you can't just sit back and wait for the tech to be done because it's likely some other faction will build one of the towers and you will have to try to take & hold that city so while you are casting the spell. I also hope they they declare war like I read in a earlier post and specificly target the caster or one of the cities with a tower.They should also make a long cooldown if the spell fails, maybe 25 turns?

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I'm good with the way it is. I see it as more an economic victory than a technological one. By the time I'd begun the towers, I had more production and money than anyone else, and I was tied for first in mana. Together, this means I'd won the game, it just happened that the other factions didn't know it yet. With all those resources, I could have conquered the world, but that would have been tedious. Instead, the game let me demonstrate my economic superiority by building the towers and casting the spell. Once I'd done that, I was officially declared victor.

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You should win because you are winning not because a certain amount of time has passed. The same goes with conquest, if you are good enough to get an early conquest victory you shouldn't be artificially limited by tech. This is why the current system is so boring. Magic victory is nothing but a tech victory you get for playing up to a certain point. Rather it should actually require that on some level the player be winning. It should take time because you have to compete with other players and successfully pull off a strategy. Just pushing something up the tech tree would be as annoying as requiring a late game tech in order to get conquest victory, doesn't matter whether you have defeated everyone else you still have to sit there and wait for the tech because you don't want people winning too fast. They key is too actually make it hard and interesting to pull off, not slap a artificial limit on something just to prolong a game you have already won. Every single time I got magic victory I could have got conquest as well.

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I'm still saying it's all too easy. Every victory. Conquest is easy cause the AI needs help. Alliance is easy. Spell of Making is easy. In fact, it's even easier than Alliance when it comes to placement on the research tree. Since magic victory is more or less research victory, it should be farther back. I am not advocating adding more time just for the sake of adding more time. Pushing it up the tree is only one part of it. Making the other AI come after you soon as you start casting, that's another part.

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