[.95] Problems with Upgrading Units

Agree with all points

The main reason I play as Yithril/Gilden is designing mage units is a huge pain. Both their weapons and robes are badly done.

Even magic weapons are a chore as its impossible to design a unit to do a certain type of dmg.

Weapons need to be divided by elemental damage type.

I really like the main post, ill be looking over the unit editor with some new ideas of improvement soon. (Well if I get any ideas...)

Sincerely
~ Kongdej

I can' t say I agree with #3,  that is what teching up is for.  

But I agree there's some serious issue about when, what and how they're grouped.

I agree with all but #3. It would be shortsighted to allow all traits on turn one. There needs to be a progression in unit design from the tech tree. The Warfare Tree relies on adding traits for balance. I would say that each unlocked trait needs to show up in the tech tree user interface. The basic early traits are still useful later on. The cost/benefit of using older troops is not having the latest training and not being specialized in new weapon tactics. But you will have a higher level. It is a fair and more importantly realistic trade off.

I agree #3 is done on purpose and I agree we need to unlock them.

But the use of bow needs to be added a bit sooner in the game.  I find that I can send out troops in chain armor not long after I have achieved the Archery technology and they can take a beating and the archer almost becomes useless.

actually the only thing I dislike about unit traits being unlocked with tech is I cant see when or where they unlock.

Sincerely
~ Kongdej

There aren't really any overpowered traits that you shouldn't be able to access until late game. Not being able to use certain traits early game just artificially limits the diversity of units you could design. Weapons and armor are what allow unit progression. Perhaps there should be more powerful late game traits but none of the current traits fit that description. As currently implemented traits are what allow you to design unique units, not better units. My concern is the lack of certain traits and weapons like bows early game really limits the types of units we can design.

Also 100% agree that traits should show up in the  tech tree.

You make a good point. I took a gander at the trait prereqs and there are some powerful ones way up in the tree. The vast majority though are about the same power. We could do with moving a large number of them down to Training and Drills. I really don't want anyone to get anything good on turn one. We need to keep those vile Magic Tree and Civics Tree bastards away from our traits! Then some more powerful ones should be added to those later techs and even a few should be spread about the other trees where appropriate. And I still want faction specific traits and some factions that get extra traits.

This kind of thing is pure content though. I am afraid the coming lockdown of features will cut off much hope of getting this stuff soon. I will strategically place my begging for this after release for the first content update. Noted and filed.

The more I examine the system the more I think that the elemental weapons like fire axes should be removed. They are too awkward. Instead a whole lot of things would be simplified, including mages, if their was simply a upgradeable progression of cold and fire items. So instead of a fire axe you just get an axe and a fire amulet. Both then upgrade to better version as tech is unlocked. This would give us much better control of designable units.

Would it be possible to have an inventory screen when you upgrade and you could choose to upgrade to any in the same class of weapon/elemental damage etc. and be able to single or mass upgrade the one piece of armor?

Great points.  The lack of smoothly upgrading weapons tends to make me stick with spears (they are first and also the smoothest to upgrade, and the lightning pike is a joy to use on troops who have seen lots of combat).  If other paths were as smooth and rewarding, then it would be a much tougher call (and encourage more variety).

Even though most traits now are roughly equal, I disagree with your 3rd point in this way:  We need more traits later on that are worth researching and adding to new troops.  Expand the concept of a trait progression, which is in its infancy, rather than doing away with it.

Mixed feelings about some of the above.

But agree with

And this one is a promising starting point

This would be a major redesign of misc objects to have fewer base types, but make all or most upgradeable like weapons and armor.  Then existing troops can "upgrade items" just like "upgrade armor" and "upgrade weapons".  Example:  a "fire amulet" chain might start with +1 attack, then upgrade to +2 attack +1 resist, and eventually to +3 attack +3 resist.  You would be able to specify auto-upgrade fire devices in unit design even before you research the first one, just like with cloaks.  (But I don't feel an urge to remove all the fire/ice/lightning/poison damage from weapons, and I don't mind if a fire axe is paired with a misc item that causes ice damage -- as long as the combat results reflect both damages correctly)

Then if they have extra time they can redesign traits and let units "upgrade traits" too.  For example, maybe at start there is a trait that increases strength but reduces initiative, but later it upgrades into a trait that increases strength a bit more with no penalty.  (I personally don't like penalties -- in my perfect world top-level traits wouldn't have them)

But what I really want is "upgrade unit size", so our early/small units can grow later in the game (I don't mind if experience is diluted and they lose a level or two).  I've seen enough requests on this so I know I'm not alone.

I guess my inner sense of neatness dislikes this kinda stuff because that does bug me. I would rather axes didn't auto upgrade into fire axes, why does it always have to be fire? Seems kinda random.