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[0.95] Frustrated...annoyed brief thoughts..

[0.95] Frustrated...annoyed brief thoughts..

I get the reasoning behind having wandering monsters etc  but when I've been playing for about an hour or two and am getting the feel of the game when within 5 turns a strong stack of ogres comes wandering in, wipes out my main army (sov and hero at level 6, warg, squad of defenders and wolf), a wandering forest drake wipes out my northern outpost, defender and shard, and a stack of some kitty critter things destroy one of my 3 towns (not undefended) all of them Vastly overpower anything I could possibly throw at them or defend against.

Sorry.. that's too much random. especially at the default setting.  the thought that the game can randomly spike the difficulty and wipe you out and you'll have no defense or recourse doesn't make me want to play again.

Love the new city building, faction differentiation, spell-book and research ... so many good things... 

Can we have monsters not wander by default? Maybe give them a visible aggro zone or something.. as it is now I find that frustration that high level wandering stacks makes way overpowers the fun.

Oh and the whole saying no to a quest makes it vanish is annoying, maybe a 'not now, ask later' choice would be nice?

 

21,447 views 34 replies
Reply #26 Top

Quoting DsRaider, reply 24

No the problem here is that placing lairs under ZoC causes monsters to attack random things period. They should attack only the outpost or city that aggroed them, and anything that gets in their way. Then they should return to their lair. Problem solved. The whole idea of stupid actions across the map by a AI you never met getting your capital destroyed is stupid. The problem has always been those drakes and ogres that get randomly unleashed but they just keep nerfing all the already weak monsters. The problem isn't monsters are tough it is that super late game monsters routinely start attacking random things early game. That is just a bad idea.
End of DsRaider's quote

 

This gets to the heart of the matter (not that "whether the game is too hard or easy" derailment)--it simply makes no sense for monsters to range far away from their home, especially when passing many local targets (maybe have a selectable "rampage" option?).

 

Personally, I have never had problems with rampaging monsters ruining my game after my first attempt back in beta 3 (where I learned the hard way not to tangle with the cave bears and such before I was ready); only lost a few outposts to roamers, so not sure how we're playing such different games (and my difficulty setting ranges from Normal to Hard).  In my first beta 4 game, I unleashed a fell dragon for the fun of it (near an opponent who built into "my" territory), and that crazy thing passed up two of Yithril's cities before skirting my closest town and heading off to who-knows-where.  So, I believe the devs when they said they made the rampaging monsters much less likely to take out the cities (and for god's sake, if they want to rampage, stay out of their way until they're done playing and then build somewhere else, heh).

Reply #27 Top

Agreed in my last game a dragon was unleashed.  I attacked and used an escape spell due to not quite being able to take it out.  The dragon ran around for a while, did not attack cities took out an outpost or two (one of mine and one of the altar), then returned home.  I have wisely decided to leave alone again.  Now there were significant forces in all three of my towns to make intruders think twice, and maybe why it left me alone.

Reply #28 Top


I did write up an idea about roaming monsters, but I forget in which thread, so I'll write it again. :grin:   :

Basically, design monsters such that they can be liked to a 'zone of control' iconed by their 'lair'. Differnt lairs can have different zones of control. Dragons may have a 9x9 area where they attack anything that enters. The obsidian golem may only have a 3x3 where it only attacks if you try to build something within. Or perhaps a raiding party has a 3x3 where they attack to steal there stuff. etc etc. This way, after the monster is done rampaging and dealing with the problem, aka feels safe again, it proceeds to return BACK to it's lair. This would work with roaming monsters that are meant to roam too...as they wouldn't be linked to a lair. Instead, you would find loot...if any...on the roaming monsters themselves.

 

Reply #29 Top

Personally, I like monsters that are agressive and chase people around.  What frustrates me are two things, when they don't chase anybody, and when they don't know when to quit chasing.  I can't count the number of times I have seen Drakes or Obsidian Golems ( aka Obstacle Gnomes by my kids) standing around right next to AI stacks and doing nothing.  You have seen it too I'm sure.  That irks me.  Also, the aforementioned rampaging epic monsters that someone else let loose who decides that I am tastier than anyone else on the map.  I'm not so much annoyed by the fact that they are rampaging, just that they don't kill the people who were stupid enough to annoy them in the first place.

What it boils down to is that monsters don't seem to have motive.  What are they doing and why?  Are they an active part of the world, concerned with protecting their lair, attacking anyone who comes near and even raiding nearby settlements in search of lunch, or are they just intended as static hero fodder?  They confuse me.  They used to at least be fairly reliable in that they would chase after anyone who came too close, which made exploring the early map like being a mouse in a house full of cats.  They were dangerous and you needed to avoid them until you were ready to deal with them, but don't leave it too late because they may decide they are ready to deal with you.  Now, they don't make sense.  Time after time the AI will just walk right past them unmolested.  I am still scared of them, so I keep my distance.  Should I still be scared of them?  Was it just too difficult to teach the AI to pathfind with so many obstacles in the way that they just had to remove the obstacles to keep the AI from whacking into a nasty monster like a fly into a window?  I don't know.  I just wish I knew the rules and that the rules were logical and applied to everyone equally.

Reply #30 Top

I played two games of Beta 4. Both got destroyed before turn 100 by way overpowered monsters. Both before turn 50 explored area around and had nowhere to go, was boxed in either by other faction outpost spam or dragons. In 2nd game build a outpost to grab a fire shard and Ashwake Dragon was nearby. And he decided to ignore my outpost and hear straight for my only city 2 screens away and ended the game right there. I didn't do a single point of damage to him.


I don't plan to play beta 4 until this shit is fixed. I remember something similar in earlier beta version and it was fixed soon after, don't know why it is happening again.

 

At the moment this game is not half the fun Civilization games are, and not 1/4 the fun Master of Magic or Age of Wonders:SH is. Small maps, lack of stuff to explore, other factions are too close and spam pioneers and monsters way too powerful wandering too close.

Reply #31 Top

Give monster lairs a zone of control. Doing this will do two very good things.

First a monster should usually only wander within that zone of control thus the zone of control becomes a visual indicator telling players that entering said ZOC will incur the monsters ire.

Second make it so that cities and outposts can not be built in a monster lairs zone of control. This will stop the AI pioneer spamming problem. They can make as many pioneers as they want but if they don't clear the land of monsters these pioneers will only be easy pray.

A monster will not leave a lair until another monster is sponned on the lair. This will ensure that lairs aren't left unprotected. When a new monster is sponned it will wonder in the ZOC of the lair unless a faction agros it by attacking it, entering its ZOC, or by taking out the lair. At which point that monster attacks that faction. Scouts don't agro monster by entering their ZOC. A monster lairs ZOC will increase every x number of turns and will produce an additional monster every y turns thus conquering said lairs ASAP is important.

Reply #32 Top

Quoting TorinReborn, reply 31
I played two games of Beta 4. Both got destroyed before turn 100 by way overpowered monsters. Both before turn 50 explored area around and had nowhere to go, was boxed in either by other faction outpost spam or dragons. In 2nd game build a outpost to grab a fire shard and Ashwake Dragon was nearby. And he decided to ignore my outpost and hear straight for my only city 2 screens away and ended the game right there. I didn't do a single point of damage to him.


I don't plan to play beta 4 until this shit is fixed. I remember something similar in earlier beta version and it was fixed soon after, don't know why it is happening again.

 

At the moment this game is not half the fun Civilization games are, and not 1/4 the fun Master of Magic or Age of Wonders:SH is. Small maps, lack of stuff to explore, other factions are too close and spam pioneers and monsters way too powerful wandering too close.
End of TorinReborn's quote

Yeah, being boxed in early game is a bit of a drag...but lucky for you only a few turns have been played. Easy to start again. :D

I find FE at least as fun as Civ4 on 'chieftain' mode, though most certainly more buggy. Not quite at MoM status, but Stardock would have to consider some of the comments I've made in my 'first FE games' thread to challenge that game.

All considering though, fantastic game. Great visuals and animations. Continued growth in spells, quests, tatics, and equipment. Really looking forward to the finished product.

 

Reply #33 Top

Or just play as Tarth and get to ignore all these roaming monster issues (although they will still take out the occasional resource).

 

I do think that it is at best condescending, at worst arrogant, to suggest that people need to choose their city founding strategy better. Due to the horrible (this is opinion, not fact) design decision to use a post apocalyptic world with very few good city siting choices, you might never found a second city (or on really bad, i.e. normal, maps a first city) if avoiding monster lairs is a primary driver for city founding.

Reply #34 Top

Quoting GFireflyE, reply 33

Quoting TorinReborn, reply 31I played two games of Beta 4. Both got destroyed before turn 100 by way overpowered monsters. Both before turn 50 explored area around and had nowhere to go, was boxed in either by other faction outpost spam or dragons. In 2nd game build a outpost to grab a fire shard and Ashwake Dragon was nearby. And he decided to ignore my outpost and hear straight for my only city 2 screens away and ended the game right there. I didn't do a single point of damage to him.


I don't plan to play beta 4 until this shit is fixed. I remember something similar in earlier beta version and it was fixed soon after, don't know why it is happening again.

 

At the moment this game is not half the fun Civilization games are, and not 1/4 the fun Master of Magic or Age of Wonders:SH is. Small maps, lack of stuff to explore, other factions are too close and spam pioneers and monsters way too powerful wandering too close.


Yeah, being boxed in early game is a bit of a drag...but lucky for you only a few turns have been played. Easy to start again.

I find FE at least as fun as Civ4 on 'chieftain' mode, though most certainly more buggy. Not quite at MoM status, but Stardock would have to consider some of the comments I've made in my 'first FE games' thread to challenge that game.

All considering though, fantastic game. Great visuals and animations. Continued growth in spells, quests, tatics, and equipment. Really looking forward to the finished product.

 
End of GFireflyE's quote

100 turns is not few. As I said, I am not playing anymore until the wandering monster issue is fixed.