Sincerely
~ Kongdej

Sincerely
~ Kongdej

I love people who show up and stomp around yelling "THIS BETA HAS BUGS" as if they're somehow so much more observant than everyone else who posts consistently.  It's a beta.  It's beta 3 out of 4 or 5 major beta releases, plus the small updates contained in each.  Of course it has bugs.  They main systems aren't even fully in place yet. Because of that the final polish runs haven't been done. 

As for:

And:

[quote who="Captain Pat" reply="26" id="3192153"]
I've been playing the FE beta quite a bit this weekend and it is leaps and bounds better than E:WoM was 2 years ago, but FE still has many of the same memory leak problems, uninformative/clumsy UI, and silly animation bugs that people have been reporting for 2 years... good thing its still in beta I guess.
[/quote]

I'm glad to see you've done so much beta work to help make the product better that you've got all those posts reporting beta problems for FE.  Without all those beta feedback and bug report posts it would look like you came here with an axe to grind and claimed to have played the beta extensively merely to help sharpen the axe. 

As for the "E:WOM was a bad release" horse beating, that horse is dead.  The rocks underneath the now destroyed horse corpse are beaten to dust.  We may have actually beaten through the ground and reached bedrock, or China.  

Here's your evidence for why people are willing to be optimistic about FE:  

• They've apologized for WOM.  
• They've given amazingly detailed feedback on why they thought E:WOM was a disaster.  
• They've been open about what they're doing to remedy it (including increasing the budget for FE, hiring significant new game dev talent, and delaying production of another game).  
• They've also given anyone who pre-ordered the original game E:FE and a yet undisclosed game for free.  

Get the fuck over it already.  It's more than we would have gotten from any other company in a similar situation.  If you're not happy with that result, you never will be happy and you're just a poison to the community.  

There is plenty to debate about the direction of and systems in Fallen Enchantress.  Try helping to make that a better game instead of waging a war that was over 18 months ago.

Gee, thanks for that update. Where have you been all my life?

Maybe if you actually read my posts you'll realize I'm not the least bit surprised this particular beta has bugs.

I admit I do have an axe to grind. So sorry I missed that party when I got the hell out of trying to fix E:WoM early and didn't waste any more time attempting to beta test a literally unplayable game that shouldn't have been released in the first place. Not to mention, Frogboy locked my thread about how broken his game was in 2010. Why would I stick around these forums with a developer like that? Give me a break. I bet even in the midst of that E:WoM shitstorm Kantok was Captain Fanboy. I don't get it, are you guys on their payroll or something?

That is all well and good, but where is all this information listed? The same dev blogs saying how great E:WoM was at the time? I guess I'm in the wrong for expecting similar quality in a product from the same company that gave us Gal Civ II.

You've got to be kidding. There are plenty of other companies that give out FREE additional content for their games without needing to screw up a previous release so severely they feel inclined to give customers what the game should have been in the first place for "free." Sorry for being the "poison" in your well of rabid fanboys.

Furthermore, if I got my $50 refund from E:WoM and then pre-purchased FE now for $20 and then the undisclosed expansion or whatever it is they're offering down the road for $10-$20, that is still only $30-$40. Wouldn't I get a better deal if I simply asked for a refund on E:WoM ($50) right off the bat? I'd have $10-$20 bucks more in my pocket--unless they're planning on giving us a full priced game for free on top of FE, which I highly doubt.

But you're right about one thing, Kantok. I should help make FE better and not waste energy posting on these forums. Forums full of fanboys that can't take any criticism regarding the beloved company that feeds them garbage but calls it caviar.

Caveat emptor indeed.

By the way, this guy:

Winner of the most level headed post on this entire thread award.

Well, I reserve the right to simply give you a refund for WOM and send you on your way. I am sure there are other games that desperately need your expertise.

That depends on you.  Do you want Fallen Enchantress and the subsequent game or do you want to continue to utilize our own forums to attack us about a 2 year old game you didn't like?  

I can't promise you that you'll like Fallen Enchantress.  After all, we though War of Magic was pretty good when we released it.  You'd be shocked at what a combination of sleep deprivation and love of *making* a given game will do in terms of judging how good the actual game is.  But it is what it is. WOM eventually became a pretty decent game but we all obviously agree that WOM 1.0 was not what it should have been. We believed it was finished, it just was lousy by our standards.

The Gamer's Bill of Rights requires publishers who adhere to it to provide refunds to customers within a reasonable time if the customer has technical issues.

edit:

As for your serious question: FE is $39.95.  The next expansion pack will likely be between $20 and $30 depending on content level.  If you get refunded on WOM, you would get your $50 back. But there is no 2012 "upgrade" price to FE. It's full price at this point.

You are starting to insult me. Please stop implying that I am not reading what you are saying or do not understand it. I have read the thread several times over. There is a difference between me not understanding and us not communicating well. I doubt you are trying to be insulting, but you are being intentionally condescending. I understand where you are coming from. It is a place of doubt. I agree that the burden of proof is on Stardock. That is fair, considering the situation. I said there is no more to discuss because you didn't seem to want to discuss anything. You glossed over everything I said, passing it off as comments made without reading the thread. How can we discuss anything if you are going to make assumptions like that? 

You do make a good point about me making claims without proof. Fanboy might be a good description of me. I am here for one simple reason, AI. GalCiv2:TA has the best AI I have ever played against in a TBS. It is simply amazing. So, I support the company that produced it. It would take a long series of games with bad AI to change my mind. FE is already doing great in this respect. As to my claims, I am not a spokesperson for Stardock. I am just a beta tester. But you can bet that I check the site everyday and read all relevant posts. It might be second hand knowledge, but I am rather an expert on this particular forum and this particular game. I could copy down most of the xml from memory. The biggest weakness of the forum is a crude search engine. I can probably find sources for the claims I made in my earlier reply, but it would be quite the hassle. So you can trust me or look it up yourself.

Could you at least concede that what I say is what Stardock has said? I am a reasonable expert on this subject. I don't think there is anyone questioning me besides you. Most of this is common knowledge. It is common knowledge on the forums that Derek Paxton has no obligation to release the game before a certain date. It has been said in many dev posts that the game will be finished when it is finished. The developer's goal is to get a metacritic score of 90 or better. We are moving into beta 4 soon. There will almost certainly be a beta 5 and maybe even a beta 6. I have been keeping a watchful eye on this project since WoM started development. After the apology for WoM came out, there was a mission statement about winning back their slighted customers by giving them Fallen Enchantress and the yet to be named expansion for free. Since then Derek Paxton has taken over. A new team was assembled and debuted when the Alpha started. The whole point of FE is to prove to gamers like you that Stardock has realized its mistake and will from now on focus on quality over all else. That is why there is no release date and no physical distribution. In Stardock's quarterly and annual reports, which are made public, you can confirm that Stardock is putting a ton of resources into this game. And as you do not seem to realize, Ironclad Games made Sins of Solar Empire, not Stardock. Only the last end of production for Rebellion was done by Stardock. Not entirely relevant, but it is important in saying that this game is the primary focus of Stardock now. Also, keep in mind that Stardock Games are really on an indie developer level. Do not expect AAA level completion schedules. After WoM, Stardock increased the manpower and funding for their games division to unprecedented levels. There is alot riding on the success of FE.

As to the problems that exist with the current beta 3:

-Memory leaks are no longer being reported. I you get a memory leak, be sure to report it.

-The new UI that has been in development is coming out in beta 4 most likely. The stuff we have right now is largely placeholder.

-The animation bugs are a continual problem. As often as they are fixed, new content adds new animation bugs. This is a fact of betas.

-There are some things that have been problems since the WoM beta. IMO they exist in areas that have not been completed for the new game. So much has been overhauled or fixed in the beta cycle, I have no reason to think they would release the game with known bugs. Most bugs I post about are fixed within hours of being posted.

-The only serious crash error left is a repeating crash that I suspect is rooted in the roads data. I am hoping they fix it for beta 4. This one does bother me as it prevents the tester from reloading to avoid the crash. Playing on small maps seems to curtail the issue.

You may also be interested to know that there are many features which are planned to be added after FE releases, but before the expansion. That includes a full feature multiplayer, boats, and new content and art assets. But much of this depends on how the game is received by players. If we all agree that the game is terrible, there is not much point in adding new features.

[Edit] Apparently he decided for a refund before I could finish posting. Can't say I want many more people like that on the forum. Bon chance.

Certainly the game needs a fair share of doubtful critics as well as fanboys. We all play our parts I suppose.