[Feedback] Maps are too Flat

from Elemental Forums

So I've been trying to figure out for a while now what keeps stopping me from sitting down to play this game. At first I thought it was item randomness, and while that is part of it, the same was sort of true for master of magic.

Then I realized that the issue is that every 4x strategy game always involves exploring your landmass first, whether uncovering the overworld in shadow magic, revealing your island on civilization or exploring to your fuel cell limit in orion.

Fallen Enchantress does not have this. In fact every single game I have started placed my empire smack dab in the middle of the map. There are simply too many directions to choose from and without being able to explore due to frequently upgrading monster lairs near the staring position, it is sometimes impossible to root out a clear start and end point for an empire. Typically the first city could end up looping around behind to the last.

My suspicion is that the map script being used is 'pangaea' due to the lack of naval units, but the pangaea mapscript does not fit well when there are monster spawns capable of appearing anywhere on the map. War of Magic actually did this better. Most starting positions were at the edge of the map, or seperated from the larger land mass. In either case there was a very clear 'starting' position for the empire that you pushed outwards from.

The notion of a hostile world does not need to be hindered in any way using a map script that provides the player with a defended rear, it simply encourages the player to expand in a given direction, and puts the forces allied against the player in a clear direction. Along with the pioneer spam the start of the game is simply too chaotic to put forth any strategies.

In short, I would like to see more dynamic winding maps with players placed at the end points to converge with each other (and other hostile forces) in the middle.

4,342 views 11 replies
Reply #1 from Elemental Forums Top

I think more varied map options would be nice, but I would't want every map to have the same starting conditions you describe. That should just be one of several possibilities.

 

I think the problem you have is less with the map, and more with the way monsters are initially spawned. You are 100% right that sometimes the initial threats make it impossible. A game on 'Normal' settings should not feature armies of high level beasts that completely surround the player from Turn 1. I think the initial tgreats should be a challenge, but never impossible. High level threats should be in the Wildlands or develop from initial lairs over time. The key is to balance thibgs so that players face fair initial challenges that are not a cakewalk, but also not impossible.

Reply #2 from Elemental Forums Top

I think it's safe to say there will be a lot more map options in the final release, so you should be able to pick a few that will scratch your itch so to speak.

 

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Reply #3 from Elemental Forums Top

I have yet to begin a game in the middle of a map.  I am always near the edge.

Reply #4 from Stardock Forums Top

The maps in FE are just blah.  The maps in EWOM were just as blah. 

The Elementerra mod for Elemental made some interesting maps that were fun to explore....

Reply #5 from Elemental Forums Top

The maps suck.  They don't come close to resemble any real landmasses.  They are impossible to explore for most factions due to monsters.  They are formed from ugly squares that create this square-ish ugly landmass that is the world, it's just very unappealing.  (having the camera defaulted to look at it from an angle was a fairly lame trick to make it less bland).  And nations form very strange borders because pioneers are super mass produced and then they fill the crooks and nannies of the world like a can of spilled mountain dew on a keyboard, with forts untouched or challenged by monsters.  

Reply #6 from Elemental Forums Top

I actually do not mind the maps.  I do think multiple land masses would be beneficial, and perhaps naval units could be addressed later.  The map I actually want to play is the map from the story with the two big land masses joined by the hinge--I would like that map to be a choice instead of always being random.  That map looks fun.  The monsters seem to be a little to focused on destroying the human player while avoiding the AI players, but that doesn't really have anything to do with the aesthetics of the map.  The maps have have a variety of terrans, and elevations and the ability to alter the terran is also alot of fun.

As far as starting positions, it seems I have started just about everywhere.  I have been in the middle sandwiched between to factions that seem to hate from the word go, and I have been off by myself near a coast.

 

Reply #7 from Stardock Forums Top

Quoting Rhadagast, reply 2
I think it's safe to say there will be a lot more map options in the final release, so you should be able to pick a few that will scratch your itch so to speak.

 
End of Rhadagast's quote

 

It really is never safe to say that about any game. I have learned over the years with following game development that you should never assume something will be in the game until you actully see it.

Reply #8 from Elemental Forums Top

Thank you CDRMorgan for pointing this out, this is one of the issues I have too, while the solution differs a tiny but, I am sick of the current map editor (and have voiced this in a few other places).

I really think the editor needs a rehaul in any direction, mostly to provide a couple of different landmases which could be switched on or off, the current choice of temperate, desert etc. is just useless (imo) since its just the basic cover of the dirt, not the shape.

Hope something is changed soonish, I would be much more obliged to beta a lot more, and post a lot more bugs with proper landscape :)

Sincerely
~ Kongdej

Reply #9 from Elemental Forums Top

I made some great maps for WoM that should port over just fine. I think they just need more single tile hills to add some flavor to the large planes areas. My latest map is quite good, but then Mountainous has always had the best maps.

Reply #10 from Elemental Forums Top

The maps themselves I think don't have enough open spaces. They are too cluttered with mountains and (bizarre-looking) crevasses in the first place. I would rather they be cluttered with monsters and resources.

 

The thing that bugs me the most though is the elevation thing. There are plains, low hills which look like plains, tall hills which look like hills, short mountains which look like hills, and mountains which look like hills that got into the Miracle-Gro. They are like 40x as tall as the next highest thing, and have no reall graphic indication that they are quantitatively different.

Reply #11 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Bellack, reply 7

Quoting Rhadagast, reply 2I think it's safe to say there will be a lot more map options in the final release, so you should be able to pick a few that will scratch your itch so to speak.
 
It really is never safe to say that about any game. I have learned over the years with following game development that you should never assume something will be in the game until you actully see it.
End of Bellack's quote

Considering there are basically no map options now, yeah, I'm going to say its a safe bet there are going to more.  Whether or not you like them is a different story.  I'd also like to be able to use the hinged map from the book as someone mentioned earlier.