Gameplay Question: Am I missing something?

Greetings all. I am one of those who pre-ordered WoM and found myself disappointed in it. I stayed away a while, waiting for FE and thought I would check in and see how it is going. Download, install, and away we go. 

 

Tutorial done. I guess. I start my first game. I decide to go down to easy since it has been a while and I don't really get what's going on. 

 

Bam. Sovereign dead. Am I missing something? I know he just repops in your city, but it is demoralizing having your brave leader mauled. Should I not be exploring with him? Do I have to sit and wait until I can get an army going in my city? How do I heal my hero and leader up without just sitting there turn after turn?

 

I wanted to like WoM, and I want to like this game as well, and I want to give feedback, but I feel like quitting and just accepting the fact I wasted my money when I am not having fun right out of the gate. 

 

CM

6,688 views 18 replies
Reply #1 Top

It's a dangerous world, friend. 

Reply #2 Top

You may want to see how people handle the first few turns.

In general there's three good approaches. 1) Self-buffing fighter with Procipinee's crown 2) Direct damage fire mage 3) race customised for early troops

A turn by turn example (hardest difficulty, no restores, clear win by turn 100) of the first approach can be found here: https://forums.elementalgame.com/424198

Reply #3 Top

The "easy" difficulty level means fewer wandering neutral enemies, but it doesn't mean your sovereign is immortal or gifted with the Dirty Big Sword of Everything +3.  You have to take moderate care, and it helps to read up on some of the enemies you'll face.  Be sure to hover your mouse over these to see what kind of threat they offer, because in the early game, only ones listed as weak should be attempted.

 

And bear in mind that the game is in mid-beta.

Reply #4 Top

This game is currently incredibly difficult due to the erratic and unpleasant behaviors of the monster AI.  Luckily, this is supposedly being fixed next patch; if that holds true, then a lot of early-game insta-gibs should be resolved.

Reply #5 Top

Also be aware you're playing a beta. Try to roll with it and see if you have fun but remember there's ALOT of balancing still to be done.

Reply #6 Top

The difficulty levels are barmey in EFE, normal being like suicide.  Try starting at beginners level, that way you might stand a chance.  Don't go anywhere near the normal setting unless you have a book full of cheats and a disk full of hacks.  :)

Reply #7 Top

Well the game needs a better tooltip of how hard battles really are, that is true, and that would be a tremendous help to new players as they will not die to random monsters due to not knowing assassin demons heal full up when they kill stuff, or bears hit like trucks...

Sincerely
~ Kongdej

Reply #8 Top

The game is far from extremely difficult. If you clear out the area around your starting city and start a new city that is not next to a huge monster, then you should be fine. I play challenging and dense monsters and I am having a blast. I am not a "hard core" gamer and I NEVER reload a lost battle. The third and fourth city you get from the first AI that will declare war on you ;)

Reply #9 Top


There is a huge variation in how powerful your sovereign is out of the gate. If you haven't designed him/her to be effective straight away, it's very easy to die. Talent / profession / equipment / race / magic selections are all very relevant.

Unless you've built your sovereign with the intent on attacking early, be very cautious. You will often want to get the nearby adjacent hero to aprty up with first, and pick up any freebies before fighting in the hope of getting some useful equipment.

Reply #10 Top

Yes, sometimes your Sovereign and starting hero can go on epic journeys, just avoiding monsters and visiting goodie huts.  You can often get some quite good loot that way.  Especially prized early on are Merchant's Guild crates or Free Rider caches.  And a great early pick up is the Chain Mail Shirt, which provides great early defense, and best of all has no Level requirement, and the Fending Blade, which increases initiative and gives you two counterattacks, meaning you normally have 3 attacks every time you attack once! =)

Reply #11 Top

You need to create a city ASAP usally in the first turn.  Contrary to what many people on this forum think the placment of the first city is not really important as long as you have a minimum food of 2 and 3 material. Many on this forum cry about this choice and keep restarting thier games to get the LEET starting position. But as long as you keep an eye on your resources and make the right decisions then you will be fine.

Create a few units as fast as you can and get as many heros as you can afford as quick as you can. Monsters (thank the devs) are actully more aggressive now so watch out for this.

Reply #12 Top

Quoting Emperorjarin, reply 4
This game is currently incredibly difficult due to the erratic and unpleasant behaviors of the monster AI.  Luckily, this is supposedly being fixed next patch; if that holds true, then a lot of early-game insta-gibs should be resolved.
End of Emperorjarin's quote

I hope not. I love the monster AI now. The only thing it needs is the ability to attack all players not just you.  The game was boring in previous versions because the monster were not very aggressive.

Reply #13 Top

Thanks for all the posts!

 

I was using pre-generated sovereigns to get the hang of the game. My usual order was similiar to WoM: Build a city, explore some chests, kill a couple monsters, and do the quest. There is where I was going awry. Almost every time I would get slapped like a red headed step child whne trying my first quest, so I need to lay off. 

 

My next game I will work on designing a ranged sovereign, I think that might help me start out.

 

I though I had said I realized this was beta, but I am also of a mind that all these things need to be mentioned if possible. 

 

EDIT - I also looked at the AAR reports suggested earlier which were quite helpful, but I was wondering if we have any documentation yet (if the game is feature locked) or if there is an online repository of powerful and terrible knowledge?

 

CM

 

 

Reply #14 Top

I'd recommend going for a melee sovereign.  Queen Procipinee isn't a bad choice, for starting out with the pre-made options. I like to expand quickly with new cities, but that is mostly carry over from other 4x games. As far as the hero is concerned, as others mentioned at the very beginning you are wandering around picking up free loot and fighting very weak monsters.


Many weak monsters can stomp starting sovereigns

For a starting sovereign there is a lot of variety in their weak classification from, pushover to stomp you, knowing which is which takes a little time with the game (true for all games like this). You can look at the stats and how many you are fighting, which helps, but really just playing (and save-loading battles for learning what you can take/what the monsters are capable of) helps a lot. Armor helps a lot with some of the weak monsters. (I think it would help new players get started if they introduced a new feeble category of the really weak monsters, I know it would have been helpful for me)

 

Quests are tough at first

Quest are hard at first even the weak ones, because they typically are stronger weak's, and you don't know exactly what you are going to be fighting when you make your choice to fight. (imho they need to fix quests so you have an idea of what you are fighting, and thus if you can possibly win. It would go well with their v915 change which lets you come back to quests and finish them later). 

 

 

Why Queen Procipinee?

She has haste and slow which are both very effective, especially in combination. She has her crown (no upkeep on buffing spells cast on her, which means beginning game you can afford to put buffing spells on her). She also comes with the arcane monilith spell which creates watchtowers anywhere for 30 mana which is incredibly powerful (will probably be nerfed one of these patches) when used properly with careful placement due to the speed at which it allows you to capture nodes (just be sure to avoid waking monsters with it by enveloping them in the zone of control). Of course custom sovereigns can be made which are even better.

 

 

Why a melee hero?

The only effective pure mage build I've managed was the fire mage, but pulling it off requires warlock, and is less forgiving about picking unhelpful traits. A death mage may also work as a pure mage, haven't played much with the dark side.

Ranged heroes are much better suited as support heroes and even then hard to pull off. Ranged weapons are lower damage and have initiative penalties. You need a good ranged weapon, and they just aren't that common. After a couple turns in combat you'll end up in melee anyways, where you ranged weapon gets no retal like a spear just with lower damage, init penalties, and no armor piercing. Rarely are battles short enough (read a cakewalk) that the couple shots you get off before they get to you wouldn't have been made up by the melee weapons advantage. If you do go the ranged route, I think the assassin traits are best suited for ranged.

Reply #15 Top

Quoting CMarvel, reply 13
My next game I will work on designing a ranged sovereign, I think that might help me start out.
End of CMarvel's quote

Do not do that, the starting bow is terrible and I was greatly dissapointed with it, especially since I picked "Archers" for my faction trait...

That said you will want to start with the Short Sword for the most effective weapon, counter attack beats no ability whatsoever :)

Sincerely
~ Kongdej

Reply #16 Top

I though I would revisit my thread here. 

 

I did concentrate on a melee sovereign, with great success. On beginner and easy. I am able to beat the game fairly regularly on those settings, to the point that the AI doesn't really offer much of a challenge. Thanks again for all the advice and help. it really did make a difference!

 

I cannot however make the jump to normal. I have done everything people have said in starting the game, with city enchants, with Porcie's crown and so on. The two major problems are the way that mobs ignore the AI. If I do find another place to settle before the AI sends its millions of peasants to inhabit, there are deadly or strong monsters hanging around there. I build a force to go get it, and there is already a AI city sitting there now, happily ignored by the mobs. 

 

I have tried playing aggressively, but I just can't anything decent going as far production early on. I have to be missing something. I mean, I am not super out of control strategy genius, but I have been playing tbs games since the early 80's. I would think I would have shot at Normal difficulty. 

 

 

Reply #17 Top

I play hard? (whatever one level above normal is) and I tend to play defensively.  Near mid-game it's very common for my score to be around, even under 100, while larger civs are around 300+.  And when I finally get moving I will start chewing on the lower end civs while trying to keep the higher end occupied (paying others to fight them and otherwise staying out of their business) and fervently keeping my borders locked down above all else. 

By the time I start taking civs I can typically steamroll until I get to the top 1 or 2, then things slow down and I really have to buckle down. I focus on intel and understanding the final guy(s) main strengths/focus.  Things can get hairy, I'm no longer out of the spotlight for the AI so 'stuff' can happen, but my early defense seems to minimize damage.  So don't get focused on your score either.

Each time I play I choose a different focus, and I will do what I can to stay 90% to my particular focus and see how viable it stays throughout.  I've tried archery, fire school, armor/weapons (near zero magic), Air and water, and a couple of the default sovereigns.  So far the only thing that hasn't worked was the armor and weapons, end-game my high level heroes and trained units were doing like 10 damage max with no way to improve their abilities...so had to stray.  But for the most part the game seems to allow for 'themed' play, so to me it seems hard to really gimp yourself, unless on purpose.  AND even in where my original plan didn't work, I was able to get out of the corner I had backed myself into.

I tend to be a vulture too, and this may help you the most.

Wait, wait for the enemies to leave their towns, wait for them to possibly get into random encounters and wait for them to enter your territory.  I have found some cities are just obviously too tough to crack, but someone eventually leaves.  And a key point is to have someone around to see this and a strong force close enough...albeit out of range of the enemy, to pounce on them.  Pay attention to your mana, don't use it just because you can, I've had this bite me in the butt.  400+ mana casting very powerful 12 cost spells in combat...I stopped paying attention.  Then two enemy armies entered my territory and I didn't have the mana to slow them down or to 'jump' my main force to defend.  I got the town back, but it cost me a lot of time and resources.

Reply #18 Top

My experiences mirror those of dctrjons.  At high AI levels, you simply cannot rely on troops.   You usually cannot match the AI's tech level, as they get x4 bonuses on population growth and research.  But even at equal tech levels, your damage output pales against their boosted hit points. 

You need to get really good at using heroes in tactical combat.  Mages, warriors, assassins, they all work, but you have to master them.  By the way, power has shifted from assassins to warriors in .915, and I am not sure which is the better combat build.  I still prefer assassins, personally.  I find that for some reason, I get much crappier picks at level up with warriors.