[.912]AI Hero/Sov Leveling

from Elemental Forums

Procipinee's history includes the following quote: "Daughter of Amarian III, Queen Procipinee of New Pariden remains the greatest channeler of the New Age." Amarians blood trait gives them different bonuses for each one of each shard type they hold, for additional hit points, initiative, spell resist, and spell mastery. Pariden, being a magical powerhouse faction, has starting traits of Adepts (harvest shards as soon as the game starts) and Enchanters (access to magical equipment and books that allow heroes to learn schools of magic they do not already know).

Procipinee's starting traits, besides Amarian Blood, are:

  • Air Apprentice
  • Life Apprentice
  • Water Apprentice
  • Attunement (+2 mana per season)

So given all of this, it's reasonable to assume that Pariden will be a magic based faction in game and that Procipinee will level with an eye towards maximizing all of these magical underpinnings.

In my current game I was at war with Pariden and drastically overpowered them. I demanded Procipinee's surrender, and got it. Awesome. My magical kingdom just got another powerful magical hero.

Umm... not so much.

274 turns into the game, on Challenging, Procipinee's traits, other than her base ones, when she joined me:

Level 9

  • Bloodthirsty: +25% ATK vs. damaged enemies
  • Strength: +20 Weight Capacity
  • Path of the Assassin
  • Spell Resistance: +10 Spell Resist
  • Water Disciple
  • Charge: +3 Moves on first turn of combat
  • Air Disciple
  • Healer: +1 Army Health Regeneration per season
  • Broken Spirit
  • Merchant 1: +2 Gildar per season
  • Path of the Warrior

She was wearing leather and carrying a normal old staff. She had 10 ATK & 6 DEF.

Suffice it to say, her leveling certainly looks less than optimal. Most of her innate strengths are wasted on this build at level 9. Notice, no Path of the Mage.

I'm not sure if this is the AI not leveling their heroes properly or if she just had shit luck in the random trait selection department. Either way, something should probably be done to ensure that heroes, and Sovereigns especially, develop according to their lore and character. At least moreso than Procipinee did here.

Potential solutions:

  • Improve the level up AI
  • Maybe build required talents into each lore AI Sovereign (remove the random element at certain key levels, like 4 with the Paths). 
  • Have the lore based Sovereigns not get random choice, but have a prebuilt path that they follow when the AI levels them.

No idea what would be the best, but Procipinee, as a vassal, doesn't even equal a freshly recruited level 9 hero, because her leveling lacks any clear direction.

3,916 views 11 replies
Reply #1 from Elemental Forums Top

That's don't look good.

Reply #2 from Elemental Forums Top

      I would completely agree there with your points.  Playing as Procipinee once or twice already,  I wouldn't blame the AI for its choices.  (Insert slight jab at current magic and spells still pretty much bleh )  

     As a side note I generally don't have a huge number of heroes, for a good bit it's the dude who shows up near the Sov when game starts.  They're like completely random.  9 times out of 10 I don't like whomever due to what they start with in traits/ setup.  I'm thinking Path of the Governor might or should be taught to level X champions (or above) and let the the player decide between mage/warrior/defender/archer builds.  Said champion could then 'retire'  from military life (giving up any skills not in governing ).  Also some youngster in the kingdom may hear about it and be inspired to take up adventuring for the Sov.  (Player gets a new champion for free at starter level and initial traits, perhaps a small bonus like already having Adventurer's Boon?  ) 

 

Short version, I think the traits could use a little re-work, tweak here and there,  plus a little pizazz.  

Longer wall of text version, I'll have to get back to you with some of my details.  

Aplologies if this post went too long. 

Sins of a Solar Empire II
Reply #3 from Elemental Forums Top

Another oddity I noticed after checking out Procipinee's inventory after she surrendered.  She was using a plain old staff with 4 Blunt Attack and -1 Crit.  In her inventory she had the following three items:

  • Queen's Staff - 4 Blunt ATK, -1 Crit, +6 Dodge
  • Dagger - 6 Cutting ATK, +4 Init, +4 Crit, +1 Counter ATK
  • Sharp Dagger - 6 Cutting ATK, +4 Init, +6 Crit, +0.5 Crit Multiplier, +1 Counter ATK.
  • Glyph Round Shield - 5 DEF, 6 Spell Resist, +6 Dodge, +10 DEF when defending.

The optimal weapon for her build, or for a mage build, out of those weapons certainly isn't the Staff.  It's the Sharp Dagger, with the shield if it doesn't put her into a weight penalty.  

Her trinket choice was screwy as well (she had a horse in inventory, but wasn't riding it), but you get the point.  

 

Reply #4 from Elemental Forums Top

Same game, 283 turns in.  Ceresa just surrendered.  She had the third most powerful faction in the game behind me and another custom faction that the AI is playing.  

Same problems with her, only worse.  She was only level 2, no magic talents except the ones she started with.  Not sure how her faction got to be so powerful with a level 2 Sovereign.  

Reply #5 from Elemental Forums Top

I totally agree here. the game is way too easy right now because the AI sucks at choosing skills for its champions when it levels up.

Reply #6 from Elemental Forums Top


be careful what you wish for, LOL.

Reply #7 from Elemental Forums Top

I'm not sure if this is the AI not leveling their heroes properly or if she just had shit luck in the random trait selection department. Either way, something should probably be done to ensure that heroes, and Sovereigns especially, develop according to their lore and character. At least moreso than Procipinee did here.
End of quote

 

I suspect the AI couldn't find a decent melee-type champion, hadn't gone with the Warlord background, and decided its best option was turning Procipinee into a front line warrior.  Definitely needs tweaking, and that Summon Shadow Warg spell is probably something the AI Procipinee needs on all occasions.

Reply #8 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Humility, reply 6

be careful what you wish for, LOL.
End of Humility's quote

What?

Reply #9 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Glazunov1, reply 7

I'm not sure if this is the AI not leveling their heroes properly or if she just had shit luck in the random trait selection department. Either way, something should probably be done to ensure that heroes, and Sovereigns especially, develop according to their lore and character. At least moreso than Procipinee did here.

 

I suspect the AI couldn't find a decent melee-type champion, hadn't gone with the Warlord background, and decided its best option was turning Procipinee into a front line warrior.  Definitely needs tweaking, and that Summon Shadow Warg spell is probably something the AI Procipinee needs on all occasions.
End of Glazunov1's quote

I'm not so sure that's the case for two reasons:

1.  Procipinee's background makes her a caster.  Trying to turn her into a melee fighter will never result in a good melee fighter.  Of all the solutions to "I don't have a good tank" that the AI could come up with, turning Procipinee into the tank has to be the worst available. 

2.  If the AI was going the Procipinee as tank route, why on earth level Water (Chaos, Freeze) to 2, take a Spell Resist 10 trait, and take the Merchant trait?  Air to 2 gives you Guardian Wind, but that spell can't be the best thing to spend a trait on if you're creating a melee Sovereign.  That's arguably four level ups on top of all of her innate spell casting traits that are wasted if the goal is to make her a melee fighter.  

 

Reply #10 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Kantok, reply 9

I'm not so sure that's the case for two reasons:

1.  Procipinee's background makes her a caster.  Trying to turn her into a melee fighter will never result in a good melee fighter.  Of all the solutions to "I don't have a good tank" that the AI could come up with, turning Procipinee into the tank has to be the worst available.
End of Kantok's quote

 

Where did I write that the AI did this because it was a good idea? :) First, I'm just guessing, same as anybody else.  Second, I think the AI decided it needed a warrior, and it didn't have one handy, so it made one of the best casters in the game into a melee type.  Bad choice, but I think that's why it did what it did.  And why keeping the Shadow Worg summons is probably a good idea when the AI plays Procipinee.

2.  If the AI was going the Procipinee as tank route, why on earth level Water (Chaos, Freeze) to 2, take a Spell Resist 10 trait, and take the Merchant trait?  Air to 2 gives you Guardian Wind, but that spell can't be the best thing to spend a trait on if you're creating a melee Sovereign.  That's arguably four level ups on top of all of her innate spell casting traits that are wasted if the goal is to make her a melee fighter.  
End of quote

 

Because the AI has no rules set at this point for the longterm development of a sovereign.  Mind, this is just my speculation, but I think it's responding instead to shortterm needs.  So: need money?  Oh, I'll give it merchant.  Oh, but now I've been hurt by spells.  Raise Spell Resist, etc.

 

I know from casual anecdotes here and elsewhere that Brad doesn't like sitting down and writing AI, but this is certain to be one of the things he concentrates upon before the game is released.

Reply #11 from Elemental Forums Top

To be fair, mage is crap, I mean mana are very limited in early of game, make hard to level up, while warrior don't worry very much about mana but a healing as need to be. so warrior fight endless as long armor, dogle, high attack, and high int speed, no problem and sole, and it's level up fast as soon as allow while mage had to stay in city and wait for mana and not much of damage spell in all first level, fire first level you had to get close to enemie to use it. but end up danger since lack of armor and dogle on mage part. So basic mage don't level very much or slow to level or had to wait and reply on troop to do damage and keep enemie away from mage, while warrior do not need all this and warrior go fight and level up soon as he able to.

 

Edit: don't get me wrong, I don't think warrior overpower, and no I am not asking nerf warrior, I had too much fun playing warrior but mage is nerf and bored, had to reply mana of limited in early of game, that mean he can't level up as warrior do, and there is not much range of damage spell in first level of spell at least, most got in high level.

Edit again, spell damage might be same as weapon, but I must point out mage had lack of wear armor and not even had per level of dogle as well, so mage do not had any mean of defense as warror do.