[0.912] Observations So Far

I've finished 2 games so far, here's a listing of the bugs / balance issues I've found so far:

I have to say, the improvements in Beta 3 are great!  Weapons seem more unique, the first strike problem was nicely fixed, everything is heading in the right direction!  

Bugs / Annoyances:

XP is still not balanced (but it's better).  I killed 3 groups of 5 mites and got 7xp, then killed one group of 3 mites and got 3xp.  If anything, killing more should be more xp per mite

Pathing is still very poor - when I have a unit leave a city to go somewhere, it often doesn't leave by the closest point in the city.  This will matter even with 1 tile cities, as it might exit on the far side.  And units don't use roads very intelligently, especially when caravans are on the roads

Still can't view the city when selecting what upgrade building to give them - that would be really nice to be able to do

An emperor that was immobilized surrendered, and was still immobilized, but in the middle of nowhere.  He got killed and was double immobilized in my city.

The 3-turns per unit construction minimum sucks.  And it causes weird things, like being able to rush them complete and GAIN gold when you've added more production than the unit costs but the 3 turn limit is in the way

When I design units, I want to see how many of each resource I have so I can plan correctly.

On a large map with dense monsters, by season 63 I had 4 cities, and had run out of things for my heroes to do anywhere near my territory.  At that point I could declare war and steamroll the AI, go ranging really far for monsters to level on, or just click next turn a lot.

It would be really nice if you could choose where improvements like apiaries and farms send their extra grain, or maybe have an economic tech that allows you to create a trade route that sends grain from one city to another.

 

Balance Issues

What decides how far apart armies start in tactical battles?  It seems random.

Early game - I have a 44 population city with a workshop, but it takes me 6 seasons to make 3 clubs and give them to some peasants?  In general, the long training time for units is absurd, but the 3 turn minimum is even worse.  Why would it take my 700 person city with the Great Mill and 6 materials 3 turns to train pioneers or those same clubmen?

Leveling heroes - far too often the abilities I want aren't present, preventing me from shaping the heroes as I want.  Please consider going to a talent-tree like approach.  Random isn't fun.

Using enemy roads means you can chain capture cities with insanely high movement

Too much grain is required for a max level city - 8 is virtually impossible to get

Even on Hard (my next game will be at ridiculous)  the game was won well before even half of the techs were researched. 

 

AI Issues

AI armies often get "stuck" and never move again for the rest of the game.  There was one place in my last game where Pariden had like 6 armies and they never moved from there in 100+ turns

A hero with 1 hp cast berserk on himself and died

A hero kept trying to cast things with a cast time after having been counter-spelled (twice)

Drakes don't use fire breath

AI still wastes time with buffs when they're completely unnecessary.  For the same mana, a fire bolt could have killed the only enemy, but the AI wants to cast Growth or Burning Blade first

It's been said that one advantage the human has is the ability to reload.  Maybe, on harder levels, let the computer cheat if the human does.  Every reload within a minutes of a save (not counting crashes) lets the AI remove immobilized and a penalty from a hero / sovereign, or save up a removal for when it needs it, or prevent a wandering monster from destroying a town.

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Reply #1 Top


Bugs / Annoyances:

The 3-turns per unit construction minimum sucks.  And it causes weird things, like being able to rush them complete and GAIN gold when you've added more production than the unit costs but the 3 turn limit is in the way

When I design units, I want to see how many of each resource I have so I can plan correctly.

It would be really nice if you could choose where improvements like apiaries and farms send their extra grain, or maybe have an economic tech that allows you to create a trade route that sends grain from one city to another.

Balance Issues

Even on Hard (my next game will be at ridiculous)  the game was won well before even half of the techs were researched. 

AI Issues

It's been said that one advantage the human has is the ability to reload.  Maybe, on harder levels, let the computer cheat if the human does.  Every reload within a minutes of a save (not counting crashes) lets the AI remove immobilized and a penalty from a hero / sovereign, or save up a removal for when it needs it, or prevent a wandering monster from destroying a town.

End of quote

1: Excellent to know, haven't noticed xD. But I think its true, this section is rather flawed... especially since it is just hard-coded ATM, and not included due to some, erh.. (how to explain this.. :S) calm way of reducing construction efficiency when building stuff with small material costs

2: Agreed, good idea :)

3: I just think I should be able to "point" outposts in the "right" direction, when an apiary is 2 paces from my city, it should of course go to that city, a city resource trading system would be nice. Sending all my silly clay to my main manufacturing CASTLE :D

4: Well I think that is the way you play (or you could set the research pace to fast), I think that there should be more researches...

5: That would be a terrible mechanic!!! say you have a lot of crashes. = computer starts cheating due to that. Instead of that just make the computer use 2 or more attempts at each combat against monsters, and take the best result.

Sincerely
~ Kongdej

Reply #2 Top

It seems to me like you're intentionally neglecting your research (city build up) in order to rush your enemies, while that is a perfectly acceptable strategy, you can't really blame the game for the research problems. Take for example: You can get a 5 grain city to level 5 simply by researching that repeatable food production research near the end of the civilian tech tree a few times. But since you're neglecting that and rushing warfare, you're worried about how it's too hard to get to level 5? Can't have your cake and eat it too.

Reply #3 Top

if you are playing on hard and aren't getting through the tree, why not increase the pace? less turns to research means more techs

Reply #4 Top

Playing on fast pace is best for the size maps we have. On a larger map there would be more to do and thus less time waiting around. It also helps the AI, which is still in its infancy.

Reply #5 Top

Leveling heroes - far too often the abilities I want aren't present, preventing me from shaping the heroes as I want.  Please consider going to a talent-tree like approach.  Random isn't fun.

End of quote

 

I actually like the random.  Although it does suck when you are selected with a bunch of traits that aren't exciting for the build you're pursuing.

 

What you don't mention is that it already is a tree approach.  You just aren't presented with the entirety of the tree, only the branching decisions at each point in time.

 

Maybe what you're therefore suggesting is a tighter pathing on the tree.  ie: once you choose "path of the mage" you're not presented with anything but mage-ish traits.  Which I wouldn't object to. 

 

If this were the case, however, I would prefer there to be 2 inflection points of choosing which branch of the tree one has access to.  Perhaps one at level 2-3 called "tentative path of the ... ", and then at level 5-8 a "path of the [what you chose earlier]" or "tentative path of the ..."  So one could choose rote specialization, or two more generalistic branches.

 

cheers,

 

-tid242

Reply #6 Top

After playing 2 games with pariden on Challanging (medium and large map size):

- I dont met other nations, only after i had 4-5 cities. They had only 1 or 2 tiny cities.

- simply steam rolled them with my 1 hero (not sovereign) and a fire elemental

- with this "army" (1 hero and fire elemental) i can defeat any monster on the map no problem.

- I think the AI has problems with the new monster behavior, cause they seems "locked" to a tiny territory, and constantly loose cities to the monsters. (this actually I was able to see)

- UI problem: When i build something i WANNA SEE how much more food i have in the city!!!! 

- UI problem: when a City leveling up I WANNA SEE all the city stats!!

 

The game is on the right track, i am playing more with this Beta game than any other "1.0"

Thank you Stardock.

 PS.

- End game needs balancing

- Heroes after 14-15 level gains only common traits witch is very sad... My level 21 hero got +5 accuracy trait it is just mehh...

- Ai armys just standing for 80-100 turns

 

Reply #7 Top

Quoting salikgyula, reply 6
I dont met other nations, only after i had 4-5 cities. They had only 1 or 2 tiny cities.

- simply steam rolled them with my 1 hero (not sovereign) and a fire elemental
- with this "army" (1 hero and fire elemental) i can defeat any monster on the map no problem.

- UI problem: When i build something i WANNA SEE how much more food i have in the city!!!!
- UI problem: when a City leveling up I WANNA SEE all the city stats!!
 
End of salikgyula's quote

"I dont meet other nations, only  after I had..."
Sounds like you expand terribly fast xD, I only ever get to build 2-3 cities before meeting the AI, and then they will have 4-5... I play on HARD BTW...

"I simply steam roll them with 1 hero..."
That is rather common for me too, sovereign will find, sovereign will SMASH! :D

"UI problems in cities..."
They will update cities a lot in the next major update, so think they neglected the city UI until that point, little point in making interface pieces when you have to scrap it abit later anyways :D.

Sincerely
~ Kongdej

Reply #8 Top

Quoting Kalin, reply 2
It seems to me like you're intentionally neglecting your research (city build up) in order to rush your enemies, while that is a perfectly acceptable strategy, you can't really blame the game for the research problems. Take for example: You can get a 5 grain city to level 5 simply by researching that repeatable food production research near the end of the civilian tech tree a few times. But since you're neglecting that and rushing warfare, you're worried about how it's too hard to get to level 5? Can't have your cake and eat it too.
End of Kalin's quote

 

I definitely wasn't rushing warfare techs, or even rushing warfare.  I got most of my units weaponry from the Magic tree.  I was about half way through all of the techs and didn't even declare war on anyone.  At some point I got bored, declared war, and got every single other nation to surrender without moving a single army. 

On a level 5 city: here's what I had in the city producing grain:

Base +20
Garden +10
Docks +5
Granary +20
Watermill +10
Agriculture Tech +10
Cooperation Tech +10
Animal Husbandry Tech +15

For a total of 100 food per grain, when 800 is needed. 

If you use gentle rain (+20%) you need 667 food to get a level 5 city.  Even with a 6 food city, you'd need to research Refined Agriculture twice.  To do it with 5 grain, you need 7 levels of Refined Agriculture.  That'll take about 70 turns with the amount of research I had.  That seems extreme to me at least.

 

 

Reply #9 Top

Quoting Poko8, reply 8
Quoting Kalin, reply 2It seems to me like you're intentionally neglecting your research (city build up) in order to rush your enemies, while that is a perfectly acceptable strategy, you can't really blame the game for the research problems. Take for example: You can get a 5 grain city to level 5 simply by researching that repeatable food production research near the end of the civilian tech tree a few times. But since you're neglecting that and rushing warfare, you're worried about how it's too hard to get to level 5? Can't have your cake and eat it too.

 

I definitely wasn't rushing warfare techs, or even rushing warfare.  I got most of my units weaponry from the Magic tree.  I was about half way through all of the techs and didn't even declare war on anyone.  At some point I got bored, declared war, and got every single other nation to surrender without moving a single army. 

On a level 5 city: here's what I had in the city producing grain:

Base +20
Garden +10
Docks +5
Granary +20
Watermill +10
Agriculture Tech +10
Cooperation Tech +10
Animal Husbandry Tech +15

For a total of 100 food per grain, when 800 is needed. 

If you use gentle rain (+20%) you need 667 food to get a level 5 city.  Even with a 6 food city, you'd need to research Refined Agriculture twice.  To do it with 5 grain, you need 7 levels of Refined Agriculture.  That'll take about 70 turns with the amount of research I had.  That seems extreme to me at least.

 

 
End of Poko8's quote

 

You can get more than 6 grain per city.

 

If anything, the reward for getting level 5 city should be harder with a much greater reward.