What, exactly, is elemental?

Generalized discussion of Elemental FE and WoM

Back in 1999, a friend of mine was visiting my house.  Total babe.  She decided that she wanted to play a computer game; civilization 2, specifically, my favorite game.  So I sat her down and got her on the computer and set her loose.  She had a good ol' time, playing for about 30 - 45 minutes--- before dying.  Big game over screen.  "How on earth did that happen?  I didn't think it was possible to actually lose!"  Turns out that what she was doing was clicking from tile to tile, uncovering the map, moving her initial settler over mountains, hills, through forests, and uncovering delicious goodie huts.  Until she ran into a barbarian and that was, as the saying goes, all she wrote.  Even though she played the game objectively incorrectly, it was still fun, and once I showed her how to build a city, she lost all interest.

Fast forward 13 years.  I fired up Fallen Enchantress beta last night and I am reasonably sure that I am doing it wrong.

On launching the game I selected an empire and fired up a map.  I established my first city and ordered it to build a workshop.  I immediately wondered if I should have built units.  No matter!  I can summon wargs! A window asking me what to research popped up.  Problem: None of these technologies seem particularly interesting.  Its not like I'm learning "The Wheel" or developing basic fireball spells-- its technology like "Civics."  Boooooring.  Regardless, I chose civics, which I assume launched me down a technological path. setting the course for the game.  Or maybe not.  Its hard to tell, reallly, since this is a strategy game with RPG elements, am I supposed to be specializing my empire or generalizing it?  I did note that there were only three tech trees, rather than the entirely untenable 5 trees of WoM.  I never did get the hang of that-- sorting out how much of each tree you needed to uncover; eventually something would come along and roll me, so I assumed I was going for too specialized a path.  

I then wandered from combat to combat, killing various creatures and stealin' their pelts.  I like this part; it gives your units something interesting to do rather than garrison cities or attack cities.  I then lost a battle, lost the king and his friend I hired.  I was getting sleepy-- a few too many brewskis-- so I went to bed.

So the reason that I'm writing my post today is that I really feel like my friend back in 1999.  I just wander this game, and WoM before it, without a clear understanding of what I'm doing.  Am I questing?  Am I conquering?  Am I supposed to be developing magic or weapons and units, or do I really have to do it all?  Do the rest of you entirely forget about your cities while moving units around, or is that just me?  In short, I cannot shake this rather nagging feeling of WoM and now FE.  What is it, exactly?  Is it a strategy game with RPG elements?   An RPG with strategy elements?  A unicorn-dinosaur combat simulator?  I'm pretty sure its not the third one, but I can cross my fingers for the next stardock game.

11,130 views 8 replies
Reply #1 Top

Strategy with RPG elements, how you win the game is entirely up to you. Do you focus mainly on the civic tree, and going for a diplomatic victory by getting the other factions into an alliance with you? How about victory via conquest, focusing mainly on the warfare tree, getting superior arms and armor to equip your units and destroy the enemy factions. Or do you focus on magic/adventure and go for the spell of making victory or the quest victory? Many different ways to win each match. It is important to decide early on just how you want to win your match so you can decide on what research tree to focus on the most, but be sure to dabble in other techs as well. After all, you don't want to send club wielding peasants against heavily armored knights late in the game.

Reply #2 Top

Its CIV with magic and some RPG. You are suppose to build an empire and make your units stronger than your neighbour.

Reply #3 Top

Thiosk, I really appreciate your post, this is some of the things thats nagging me ATM, the game got alot of goals but no paths.
To my experience you have to know the game, before you start to plan your way down the tech tree
(Oh, I want to win by casting an ultimate spell that gives me unlimited power, I click on that thing and then let technology run).

I was hoping to prod the devs to put in WAY better tutorials at some point (even if I had to state every part of the tutorial that needs updating),
that and I hope the game gets a bit more of a sense of "where you wanna go",
I like the idea that I build up my empire and decide what kind of empire I have,
but I would like these ideas to not include me having to go down different paths, and doing whatnot,
so I dont lose battles because I want my faction to be filled with big magic towers,
floating castles and cities build around huge magic crystals. - But I guess it will come later, most of it coincides in a "proper" technology tree and a lot of eye candy :D (and some guidance to non-advanced players to assist  them).

Hope you get back into the game, at least to give a second review :D - And bring the devs lots of support no matter what you feel, even if you don't like the direction, at least be positive about it ;)

Enjoy
Sincerely
~ Kongdej

Reply #4 Top


I get that nagging feeling too. In games like Civ, I know that I want to build lots of cities, build lots of buildings, make armies, conquer things. In WoM (and somewhat in FE) it feels like if I try to play the game like Civ, I lose. I then try to play 'out of my comfort zone' and try certain strategies that work or fail. It feels more like I'm playing Dominions 3 and if I don't go into the game with a preconceived plan I'll end up losing. It's way to early in the beta and I haven't played it enough to be sure of anything though.

Reply #5 Top

There is no carrot or stick in the game right now. The only drive for the player is multiple experiences and knowledge from other games. I think they should add a little directional story to prod the player along. The scene we see when founding the first city is great. We need 100 more of those to pop up and tell us what is happening and what we are doing. We need story and lore. I think it would be great if each tech told a little story about you advancing in a certain direction and how you might use that tech to focus your Kingdom. It would also be nice if building a given building could have a 1% chance to trigger a quest involving the improvement you just built. Hopefully this gets hashed out in beta 4.

Reply #6 Top

Quoting seanw3, reply 5
There is no carrot or stick in the game right now. The only drive for the player is multiple experiences and knowledge from other games. I think they should add a little directional story to prod the player along. The scene we see when founding the first city is great. We need 100 more of those to pop up and tell us what is happening and what we are doing. We need story and lore. I think it would be great if each tech told a little story about you advancing in a certain direction and how you might use that tech to focus your Kingdom. It would also be nice if building a given building could have a 1% chance to trigger a quest involving the improvement you just built. Hopefully this gets hashed out in beta 4.
End of seanw3's quote

Im not so happy about chance, means some games it happens, but most games you wont see it, and it is not up to you to control it. Chance should be part of the world creation, not part of random building stuff.

I do like the others parts tho :)

Sincerely
~ Kongdej

Reply #7 Top

Quoting Kongdej, reply 3
Thiosk, I really appreciate your post, this is some of the things thats nagging me ATM, the game got alot of goals but no paths.
To my experience you have to know the game, before you start to plan your way down the tech tree
(Oh, I want to win by casting an ultimate spell that gives me unlimited power, I click on that thing and then let technology run).

End of Kongdej's quote

 

Ok so I'm glad to know theres a few of us here who had the same impression.  The thing is, its not just the beta of FE that I had this challenge with, it was also EWOM before it.  

 

I;ve been wondering about feature creep of the 4x genre for a long time-- as more and more features get added in, the goals and directions got diluted.  What I hate more than anything is build orders and research orders that people develop for games like civilization and starcraft; I really feel like civ-likes should be more organic.  I really feel like this game is set up in every way to be a more sim-city with magic and combat game, an open ended and procedural RPG-- rather than the civ-like from which it is cut. 

Reply #8 Top


Or maybe you getting old, LOL, I don't blame you, sometime I sleepy, even sleep 12 to 15 hours a day (few time) rather than playing game.