Terrain and World Building

One of the main areas they are focusing on in FE is making the world interesting and fun to explore. However I feel that the present limited amount of in game terrain hinders this. Maps in FE don't feel like worlds, they feel like random maps. They can be fun to play on and have some interesting stuff in them but immersion is limited because they still feel like random maps and not like true fantasy worlds. In fact I would say FE is far inferior to Civ5 and HoMM3 when it comes to world building. They both have many more types terrains you could build cities in, and Civ5 maps have poles and climate zones.

In the current version of FE there are only a few terrains and they aren't very interesting. Basically there is grass and dirt spotted with the occasional desert or swamp.  While volcanic and snow terrain exists they are solely used by Wildlands. Late game even the dirt is slowly replaced by either purple or green grass until the entire world is one type of terrain excluding a few areas you can't build on anyway. The problem here is the fertile land mechanic. It really limits terrain diversity since cities can only be built on fertile plains since both empires and kingdoms spread their own unique ZoC art. The whole reviving the land and different ZoCs is a cool mechanic but its current downsides can't be ignored. The mechanic shouldn't be removed but it should definitely be expanded.

Right now both the dirt and grass tiles are actually one type of tile called plains with different fertility values. I strongly suggest adding more types of terrain that can be built on. For instance you could add tundra and savanna, with tundra being cold and savanna being warm and dry. Or tundra and savanna could be the fertile versions of desert and snow. Of course for players to build on these terrains they would need different graphics for different fertility values and different ZoCs, but I think that it would definitely be worth the effort. These types of terrain would have unique resources and monsters in order to differentiate them from plains. Tundra could have lower average food and savanna lower then average production.

To further develop the world you could designate directions or map edges as poles when maps are being generated. On small maps there could be only one, but there could be two poles on opposite ends of larger maps. Tundra and snow would spawn close to poles, while desert and savanna would be more likely to spawn far away from them. Thus you would end up with much more varied terrain that feels much more like a world instead of a randomly generated forest island. You can't tell me the world of Elemental only has one type of climate. This would also help each game to feel more unique because you wouldn't be starting and building on the same terrain every single game.

3,995 views 15 replies
Reply #2 Top

Since you mention it, I'm not a big fan either.

I'm probably the only one, but I actually liked the barren maps in WoM (we probably disagree there). Because as it is right now, the worlds just seem like a mish-mash of (pretty garish) colors (we probably agree here). If I were going to meme-ify the maps in FE, I'd probably go with:

 

 Also, I should make clear that this is a pretty minor gripe.

Reply #3 Top


Agree an expansion of different terrain types, expandable by a faction's ZOC, would go a long way. Heavenfall proved it in his EWOM mod (I remember that one faction that spread the snow terrain). Cool.

Imagine a faction that thrives and spreads deserts, swamps, snow, forest, etc.

Preaching to the choir, I know...  maybe SD already has that planned as part of the faction differentiation. I picture factions that receive bonuses (movement, combat, etc) when in their own territory and penalized while in other's.

Reply #4 Top

I would like to have cities appear a different way when built on different types of terrain. This would mean that it's possible and makes sense to build on desert / snow / volcanic terrain of course.

Reply #5 Top

Quoting LightofAbraxas, reply 2
I'm probably the only one, but I actually liked the barren maps in WoM (we probably disagree there). Because as it is right now, the worlds just seem like a mish-mash of (pretty garish) colors (we probably agree here).
End of LightofAbraxas's quote

I do think that Fertile Land spreads far to much late game in FE. It pretty much replaces all the wasteland. I would like to see a limit on how much it can spread because I think a mix of wasteland and grass looks better then just tons of grass. Also ya I find the purple fallen land a little garish.

 

Reply #6 Top

Quoting AlLanMandragoran, reply 3
Agree an expansion of different terrain types, expandable by a faction's ZOC, would go a long way. Heavenfall proved it in his EWOM mod (I remember that one faction that spread the snow terrain). Cool.
End of AlLanMandragoran's quote

My idea isn't so much that different faction should have different ZoC terrain but that every faction should be able to build on multiple terrains.

Quoting LNQ, reply 4
I would like to have cities appear a different way when built on different types of terrain. This would mean that it's possible and makes sense to build on desert / snow / volcanic terrain of course.
End of LNQ's quote

Exactly. These way we can have biomes instead of the world of Elemental being all one climate.

Reply #7 Top

Quoting DsRaider, reply 5

Quoting LightofAbraxas, reply 2I'm probably the only one, but I actually liked the barren maps in WoM (we probably disagree there). Because as it is right now, the worlds just seem like a mish-mash of (pretty garish) colors (we probably agree here).

I do think that Fertile Land spreads far to much late game in FE. It pretty much replaces all the wasteland. I would like to see a limit on how much it can spread because I think a mix of wasteland and grass looks better then just tons of grass. Also ya I find the purple fallen land a little garish.

 
End of DsRaider's quote

I thin'k the "Upgraded" lands of your own zone should just be a revivyfied version of the land it is consuming, so if your borders hit desert, it should be a somehow improved desert.

As another note, I think the difference between terrain and svamps are minor, since I NEVER notice swamps until I hover my mouse over the swamps.

I do think they should tie certain chance based results depending on terrain, Iron should be more frequent in hilly terrain, or bumpy terrain, bee hives should be located in forests mainly, - Air nodes on big open plains or deserts. No water nodes in deserts. - meaby not these values, meaby find something thematically correct, but atleast this kind of filter would make new zones more enjoyable to find, and feel different. Also more different types of plains and forests would be nice, as more different types of deserts and mountains. So my big fertile plains doesnt look, and might not have the same resources as the big fertile plains southwest if it, which is conqured by evil evil procipinee.

Also putting in more terrainn would be nice, like more hilly terrain that is walkable, like scotland, vast hillmounded terrain with few plains spots, so cities in those areas would have to be sized on hilly terrain.

Also cities looking abit different depending on where they are build sounds cool!, also atm cities seem to level the terrain to the same heigh, would be cool if this was done less, but added some graphics for cities on hilly terrain.

Sincerely
~ Kongdej

Reply #8 Top

The ideal option for me would be to have the map generator have more or less of certain terrains. Mountainous could get some snow and desert tiles instead of green and mountains. Basically just having more of one type for the different map options would be highly entertaining. 

Reply #9 Top

FE Beta certainly at this point seems to be lacking the organic and full feel of both HOMM and CIV.

In .86 especially with its lack of quests, exploration is not exciting or even that rewarding, all that you can really hope for is a treasure chest or a wildlands you can try to beat 100 turns later.

The lack of diverse terrain is certainly a part of it and FE would greatly benifit from Savana and Tundra like fertile terrain and as you said the spread of plains everwhere makes the world one giant golf course instead of a living world. 

Another great addition would be a rebalance of monsters and difficult terrain. Natural barriers like Swamps and wastlelands should be be something more like mini wildlands. Just having an unbuildable terrain is boring, instead such areas should have more difficult and unique monsters, resources, quests and rewards. These areas should be harder to pacify than normal territory so that you have a natural next step between normal land and wildlands(200+ turns). The toughest (non Dragon) monsters in the game spawning just 8 tiles from your capital and waiting for you to kill them makes those monsters very boring and commonplace.

Reply #10 Top

I just don't want FE to become a CIV clone.  I do miss the areas from WOM where you had to lower terrain or raise terrain across a channel just to get into them

Reply #11 Top

Quoting Elrhamlin, reply 10
I just don't want FE to become a CIV clone. I do miss the areas from WOM where you had to lower terrain or raise terrain across a channel just to get into them
End of Elrhamlin's quote

That reminds me of a related problem. Fissures

I really dont like how fissures in FE are done, they are huge ugly pits at least 3x3 and usually just 3x4 pits. Fissures should be made something more like (1-2) x (3-7), like rivers you cannot cross instead of giant oddly shaped pits the size of cities or lakes.

Also there should be quest locations specific to terrain. Witch huts in swamps, troll bridges on rivers, cliffside temples on mountains and coastal fortresses on water.

Reply #12 Top

Quoting Elrhamlin, reply 10
I just don't want FE to become a CIV clone.
End of Elrhamlin's quote

This is a legitimate concern, but you shouldn't not implement good features just because Civ does something similiar. Elemental is pretty different from Civ5. As Stupidity10 said the limit of a single type of fertile ground does make maps seem more like golf courses then real living breathing worlds.

I have tried messing around with XML to see if it is possible to mod this in. It would seem that eventually it will be, but the xml for terrain textures is apparently locked and the map/stamp editor has not been released yet.

Reply #13 Top

I thought that Frogboy already mentioned that new terrain types were incoming?  I will check and try to post anything I find, or if I was on some good stuff when I thought that.

Reply #14 Top

I couldn't find a link or information.  Maybe I dreamed some different tile types were coming.

Reply #15 Top

Quoting LightofAbraxas, reply 2
Since you mention it, I'm not a big fan either.

I'm probably the only one, but I actually liked the barren maps in WoM (we probably disagree there). Because as it is right now, the worlds just seem like a mish-mash of (pretty garish) colors (we probably agree here). If I were going to meme-ify the maps in FE, I'd probably go with:

 



 Also, I should make clear that this is a pretty minor gripe.
End of LightofAbraxas's quote

 

Is that picture a picture of yawning in Technicolor?