Improved leveling choices

I think if nobody is ever going to choose the common traits, then what's the point of having them?  They either need to make the rare traits really rare (boring) or just give us a bunch of really cool choices every time.  It will be exciting and excruciating at the same time having to choose between 3 things we really want knowing if we make the wrong choice we may never see that choice again.

It's not because a trait is common that it should be ridiculously weak. The leveling in Blood Bowl (LRB4) is pretty good, as you have standard traits you can chose every level, and sometimes, you can chose stat increase, or traits that are normally not allowed to you.

If the standard common traits were not so ridiculously weak, random progression would not be such a problem. 

I never even included common traits in my analysis of traits. That is because they are fillers right now. I did see some really interesting ones in Fb's new video. I wonder how much work has been done on them?

+1, except to mee I seem to use 2 common traits rather  commonly, and those are +2 strength (EVERY hero needs strength to carry theyre gear, and i always find heroes with a diminutive 4 strength or so having trouble carrying around a dagger and a hat). and the +2 initiative trait, because initiative spam seems so important, for mages because they need as many turns as possible to spam huge death spreading fireballs of magmaishdoom, archers and heavy plated knights because they have a high penalty to initiative for some reason, and a +2 to the 14 base after armors and ranged weapons becomes rather important.

Sincerely
~ Kongdej

I wonder with the common traits and how they never get picked unless there are NO other choices why there isn't just a "Levelling Package" and a "Level-up Ability" of which we can choose both? The + Stat stuff should be happening as our champions level and it shouldn't be restricted to only on the levels where there are no other good choices to make.

Suggestion?

First hero/sovereign level, pick their path, which determines what type of specialty abilities they have access to and dictates at what rate their stats improve in general, every level. From there, choose between a few useful common abilities and a rare one.

This way they can have level up traits that make them more effective against single monsters, improves defense against non-champions, levels their spellcasting, and so forth. Always something interesting, never dull +3 Dex +1 Init (Rare!) things.

What would the stat bonus for common traits have to be for you to choose one over a specialty trait like Healer, Spell Level Increase, Impulsive, etc.?

+5 strength? +10 strength?

Troja: Not so much higher for me, my biggest issue is actually getting the wrong choices to my characters (My melee characters getting mage choices).

And being spammed with "Enmity" the first few levels, which I never really want to pick.
- Usually I pick the commons because there is no "Interesting" options, and that is sad, cause it makes me feel my heroes are just generic piles of statistics, with no feel to them, and I might as well have brough a trained unit from a city.

Sincerely
~ Kongdej

Enmity is kind of ... well I don't like being spammed with it early on

I think +5 would be "fair" (except not for initiative, probably) : it would offer immediate boost, while the +1/level would be more long termed, but I prefer Tasunke somewhere else, to have traits that improve the importance of stats (traits to add dex to ranged precision, ST to melee precision, traits to reroll dodge, and to roll twice for damage, and pick the higher result...).

I don't think the issue is them just being too generic. They are really awfully weak, and won't make any difference compared to the items picked. For a warrior, the only relevant traits are a few active ones, and the +1 ST/level. +2 ST really makes too little difference. I'd rather have more traits like evoker, that would really make a difference and give a purpose to heroes (there needs to be one for healing/buffing as these don't scale well at all). 

+3 would be fine for me if it was a relevant attribute. As said before getting + strength on mages or +int on guardians is not so good.

Yes, I forget which thread I posted it in, but Traits that improve how a character utilizes their equipment would be awesome, as it would make Weapons not just a +X factor, but a synergistic factor.

We would approach a system where the whole is greater than the sum of its parts (as far as Traits boosting weapon usage, and equipping the right weapon/really good loot)

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We should be more likely to get level up traits that coincide with our path.

Warrior Path should increase likelihood of Strength and Constitution traits

Assassin Path should increase likelihood of Speed traits and Dex traits

Mage Path should increase likelihood of Spell Spheres ... no more getting generic non-spell level ups for mages!

With the new types of Stat/Weapon affecting traits ... appropriate paths would be more likely to get synergistic traits on a level up.

Honestly, given a choice between a compelling ability (something like "Monster Hunter: +50% Damage inflicted against single model creatures" or a tasty new unique spell that I would actually ever cast), and a stat bump I'm looking at something along the lines of a +5/+3/+3 stat bump (Let's say Str/Dex/Con, for the sake of argument) to make it likely at all for me to choose.

Now, that is also assuming that I know WHAT those stats do and the degree to which they will improve my character. At this point that particular aspect of character levelling is a "Have you memorized the breakdowns of how stats improve performance from the website"?

I do think a large part of it is that the stats aspect of our champions is REALLY opaque in-game, but they do need about 700% more compelling level-up choices.

I don't think the "common" traits need to be powered up. They have some good follow-up traits where they act as prerequisite (and if that was expanded even more, then the common traits could be surprisingly valuable).

I purposefully ignore Uncommon and Rare traits on occasion if they don't help my character as much as a +2 to Con (or other stat)

I've looked over the traits list in the .xml, and it is pretty extensive.  And there are some traits (besides spell lists) that have other traits as prerequisites, so there is a loose tree of sorts for a few of them.

I would recommend decoupling the stat boosts entirely from traits.  While it is fine to have a stat boost included in a trait, the trait really should have another purpose (increased damage or whatever).  As has been pointed out before, some of the current traits may have been put in as placeholders.  IMHO, you should get 'x' points per level to boost stats, in addition to trait selection. 2 points per level for stat increases, or perhaps more than 2 but you can't allocate more than 2 to any one stat each level, should be more than sufficient.

As for some comments I've read about some traits being more useful than others, this is something that can be balanced through trial and error, with the more useless traits being tweaked/enhanced until they are competive.

I think that 'Path of the Warrior/Mage/etc.' should be something you pick almost immediately, with said choice being directly coupled to the traits that subsequently appear.  This will encourage specialty characters as opposed to the hodgepodge that the random traits thing is causing now.  And Champions out in the wild should have a Path chosen already, so that their 'purpose' is better defined.

Some traits are really combat effects, and perhaps these should be tied to your weapon/equipment choice instead of a character trait.  For those familiar with Kenata's weapons mods for E:WOM, you will understand what I am getting at here.

Finally, I think that traits should have a cost to purchase, rather than just picking one each level.  Essentially, each level you get 'x' number of points to spend on traits.  This will help balance the lesser traits against the stronger ones, as you can assign a higher cost to the traits that are deemed more powerful.  Under this cost system, purchasing traits not directly tied to your path should cost more than the ones that fall under your Path (Warrior, Mage, etc.).  Unspent points may be accumulated, to save up for more expensive traits as necessary.

This also balances 10th level Champions better against each other.  So that you don't have one 10th level champion that only had 'common' traits choices versus another 10th level Champion that had all the best traits to choose from.

On a sort of related note, it might be cool if you could 'train' a 1st level Champion every now and then.  This way you could tailor said Champion's purpose from the beginning.  There should of course be a cap on these (1 trained Champion allowed per city or whatever).  This could be a mechanic that would better encourage the development of the 'stay at home' Champions.

Randomness can be seen as the lazy man's way out when designing things.  This is why some RPGs have more staying power than others, and why I better enjoy systems like Hero System for designing and leveling up characters - because balance is at the heart of character design, not how hot your dice rolls are.

X points per level to improve stats is an interesting concept.

Or we could have traits that boost the utility of the stats we already have.

(honestly I think a little bit of both is needed)

--> However choosing between a skill and a stat boost could still be relevant if both could be useful for that character imho.

But indeed, I do miss being able to spend at least 1 point in stats per level.

See.... It's information like this that would be really helpful to have access to during play in a strategy game.

I'm more likely to pick a +2 Strength trait if I know that it can lead to a power attack trait in a level or two.