[FE 0.86] City Improvements

yeah i agree cities still lack some flavour

also we REALLY need a malus for cities number its boring to see ai spam 10 cities no matter what

there are outposts now, lets use them, there shoudln t be so many cities

One way mentioned previously was specialization. While you can do that somewhat when a city levels up, I often pick the same types of improvements because they're better than others.

I also have a hard time determining how quickly a city's ZoC (Zone of Control) will expand, as well as level up. I know when it says the growth that adds to when it will get the next level, but I can't really predict when and how much the ZoC will change over time. And while ZoC is divided evenly among each of your cities, does it impact smaller cities more than larger ones?

There is a malus for cities, they grow slower.  the problem is that malus decreases in effectiveness past the 2nd or 3rd city.

Maybe unrest should increase also with each city if cities > prestige.

the point is after N cities you should *LOSE* money for example or something else

while instead i checked conquering cities i always gained money

and ofc gained production and mana and research

since mana and research increase ofc there should be a really high unrest and money malus so to make not profitable (at least until cities are realy good) spamming cities

I think the cities are pretty interesting once you get your technology level up. However in the beginning of the game there is not much choice. This is probably made worse by the fact that there aren't any interesting units to build either. So, maybe have some early wonders to build, or just some more buildings to choose from in the early game.

I don't find city spamming a problem at all. I build usually two cities in the beginning, and haven't lost yet. One big city is IMO better than a lot of small cities.

There could be some small growth bonus due to how much extra food you have. Something like 0.01 * available food. This way the amount of food you have would be more important. A city with lots of available food would actually benefit from that before 200 turns or so... I often feel the amount of food available isn't nearly as important compared to the amount of materials available. This is a fine balance, though. Too much growth bonuses and you will get a lot of city-spamming.

A quick addition to the growth from food idea: maybe some of the current +x growth buildings could instead give +0.00x * extra food available bonus instead?

I agree. There is a lull in interesting choices after I place a city. I have lots of factors to consider terrain wise, but as soon as the city is built, it is pretty much just defining a build order for the level one buildings. At level one and two we should be defining how we want a city to specialize. Have a building like Workshop, which every city needs be three buildings that are mutually exclusive:

Toolsmith Workshop: +10 Production per Material.

Masonry Workshop: +5 Production per Material. -15% Construction Cost.

Leather Workshop: +5 Production per Material. -25% Leather Armor Cost.

Now you have to decide if this city is going to capitalize on high Material resources, Focus on light troops, or build some significant buildings.

Each early game improvement should have a choice like this. 

yeah i like the idea, choices are good

Choose one building from the list at level up is interesting. So, add more of those "choose one" type of buildings.

It would be interesting if there were buildings which give you immediate benefit versus buildings which give you benefit in the long run. +1 materials vs +0.3 materials per city level type stuff.

One complaint I have right now is that troops are buildable too quickly- though I wonder if that's a function of me under-teching in military.

I kinda wish we had more randomization and different types of level up buildings, so you couldn't bank or something always being avaliable.

Agreed.. I always end up just building all the available improvements...

Specialization seem to be the way to go...

The problem is you have too few buildings to build over a very long time, and no buildings that can be built more than once. You run out of the buildings that are a priority way too fast and then you build anything.

It's also problematic to have loads of stuff to build cause then the cities become too big on the map, so there's a limit.

Also strategic resources should be added that work like this: If they are part of a city, then they give a % bonus to a particular resource.

One Idea would be city building upgrades, that are built.

I also hate exclusive building choices... No matter what you build you feel penalized or cheated. Same for the building that "work better" when you're not using the queue. bad idea. It hints to a missing mechanic: production allocation.

I think what is missing are some early low-level buildings which produce something, when you do not build anything.

Currently those buildings just are available when leveling up.

I would like to have some low level buildings, producing:

5% research (as this is the most important)

small chance for XP for heroes / or troops if nothing is produced

maybe also gold, mana

How about the following compromiise:

- all cities get a growth bonus if they do not produce anything:

0.5 - city level  (so this would help you to get to the level up buildings much faster and latest by level 5 you should have chosen one, which produces something if you do not build anything else.)

It reminds me on the great Mod for Civ 4 Master of Mana. You can choose between a Noble, a Sage, and a Merchant District and your choice affects the later buildings and gold income, mana and culture (city growth). That would be a nice feature for FE too in my opinion.

I think you are in the minority here. You must really be a glass half empty kind of guy if city specialization makes you feel cheated. 

The point would be that you have to choose if the city you just built can capitalize on existing resources. The Workshops i outlined present the player with the chance to make a large Materials city matter more. Or you can decrease the wait on building Prestige buildings for a city with high Grain, but low Materials. The last option allows you to mitigate a middle of the road city with a bonus to training light infantry. The point is to have a tool for every type of city. You are only cheated if you make bad choices.