Less 1^n events

from Elemental Forums

https://forums.elementalgame.com/417476

Fireball is a rank 3 spell, you have to be at least 5th level to know it.  It costs 30 mana to cast and takes 4 actions to cast (3 in your build).  It does 4 fire damage + 4 per fire shard (6 + 3 in your build) and has Overkill (damage is multiplied by the members of a group).  It does damage to all units in 1 radius.


The additional action is a great change to fireball and hopefully to blizzard, too, but decreasing the base damage and increasing the shard based damage makes the spell less useful if the player has bad luck with the shards on the map and more powerful if the player is lucky with the shards on the map.

I think FE needs LESS 1^n events, but currently the luck is very important, because it gives the player shards of the required type, champions of the required type, monsters of the required level, powerful loot and powerful talents.

8,050 views 22 replies
Reply #1 from Elemental Forums Top

I guess there could be a few "stock" maps that were hand made and balanced ... with pre-placed starting locations and pre-picked Sovs/nations.

 

Even so, less n^1 would certainly be nice. I see how they want people to fight over shards, as precious as oil or the like ... as long as spells such as fireball aren't an "I Win" button, yet still good enough to fight over, then at least the mechanics would be balanced (if not the luck).

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Reply #3 from Elemental Forums Top

There need to be alternative methods of creating, manipulating, and amplifying mana-types.

Reply #4 from Elemental Forums Top

Hmm. horizontal vs vertical expansion of mana nodes anyone? XD

 

(ie, a line of techs that allows a single shard to be upgraded significantly)

Reply #5 from Elemental Forums Top

 

,,currently the luck is very important,"

 
I agree. It would be allright if the player has been given tools to handle bad luck more effectively. Check out my posts about my "summon hero" & "alter shard"-spell => https://forums.elementalgame.com/417771  

Quoting Tasunke, reply 4
Hmm. horizontal vs vertical expansion of mana nodes anyone? 
(ie, a line of techs that allows a single shard to be upgraded significantly)
End of Tasunke's quote
 

I'm definitely in favor of it. There aren't enough mana income sources anyway. Raising the mana output of shards would be a good thing. Also a dedicated line of buildings that produce mana without shards would be a welcome addition.

If upgraded shards count as several shards for damage scaling, then spell scaling as whole needs to be rebalanced, which is not a bad thing. Spells aren't very balanced at the moment.

Reply #6 from Elemental Forums Top

There is very little mana in the game. I am all for making it valuable, but it needs some more output. The citylevelup improvements also only give one point of mana. They should give at least 5.

Reply #7 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting smakemupagus, reply 2
1^n = 1?  I'm confused 
End of smakemupagus's quote

He means O^n.

Reply #8 from Elemental Forums Top

Or maybe 10^n (base 10) ?

 

Honestly though it seems like he means C + nX^(1+t)

where C is starting strength

n is number of new events

X is average strength of new events (new shards/ new champions)

and t is a time-coefficient for the snowball effect.

Reply #9 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Tasunke, reply 8
Honestly though it seems like he means C + nX^(1+t)

where C is starting strength

n is number of new events

X is average strength of new events (new shards/ new champions)

and t is a time-coefficient for the snowball effect.
End of Tasunke's quote

Yep :)

Reply #10 from Elemental Forums Top

I dislike how spells are tied to almost entirely to shards.  Meaning the "free" amount you get is generally never very good, and you need many shards to make the spell potent. 

 

It ties too close the size of your empire is the strength of your spellcasters.  On top of that, there appear to be two game creation options which affect spells.  One being the obvious, choice to affect how strong magic is, but then the "Resources" option, if it affects amount of shards on the map which only makes sense that it does, means it as well affects how strong magic is.

 

Also are there any cases where a physical based hero can actually be diminished in power outside of killing them?  If you get attacked and start losing shards it actually starts reducing the power of your spellcasters, whereas physical heroes remain as strong as ever.

Reply #11 from Elemental Forums Top

I suggested in another thread to let spells scale with intelligence as well. Would lessen the dependance on shards for spell casters. 

... Thinking about it, stepping away from sole shard scaling also lessens the snow ball effect that happens if your doing good in a game. As more cities leads to more shards which results in more damage in battles makes it easier to conquer another city and snow balling to victory. ;)

Reply #12 from Elemental Forums Top

Doesn't intelligence already increase spell power?

Reply #13 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Tasunke, reply 12
Doesn't intelligence already increase spell power?
End of Tasunke's quote

Now, i found it really muddy to judge what Spell power vs. Spell resistance really does.

Ok, on some cases it's just resist or not resist - so entirely a binary effect, which by the way, I don't like at all (binary effects that is). But then how does Spell power effect spell damage? Does it effect at all? I have my doubts about that. What is with debuff spells that aren't resistible and don't dish out damage? 

 

Reply #14 from Elemental Forums Top

Hmm. Upon playing the beta (some more), and reading in-game descriptions ... I'm thinking Spell Power only reduces the target's spell resistance :(

Reply #15 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting nkraptor, reply 10
I dislike how spells are tied to almost entirely to shards.  Meaning the "free" amount you get is generally never very good, and you need many shards to make the spell potent. 

It ties too close the size of your empire is the strength of your spellcasters.  On top of that, there appear to be two game creation options which affect spells.  One being the obvious, choice to affect how strong magic is, but then the "Resources" option, if it affects amount of shards on the map which only makes sense that it does, means it as well affects how strong magic is.
End of nkraptor's quote

Yep, i think the shard damage should be only 25 % of the base damage. The magic option affects the amount of shards on the map and the resources option affects the amount of metal, ... on the map.

Quoting Tasunke, reply 12
Doesn't intelligence already increase spell power?
End of Tasunke's quote

Yep, but only spells like slow can be resisted and the spell resistance does not work against damage spells, but perhaps the spell resistance will reduce the damage by 50 % in the next update.

Reply #16 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Tasunke, reply 14
Hmm. Upon playing the beta (some more), and reading in-game descriptions ... I'm thinking Spell Power only reduces the target's spell resistance
End of Tasunke's quote

Quoting Wizard1200, reply 15

Quoting Tasunke, reply 12Doesn't intelligence already increase spell power?

Yep, but only spells like slow can be resisted and the spell resistance does not work against damage spells
End of Wizard1200's quote
 

 

Which means both stats aren't utilized well.  

Reply #17 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Xadie, reply 16
Which means both stats aren't utilized well.  
End of Xadie's quote

Yeah, i hope the next update improves the magic and the stats and hopefully FE does not get more randomness like destinys gift: https://forums.elementalgame.com/417697

Reply #18 from Elemental Forums Top

Well.

If spell resist increases both 'resist' and spell 'defense'

and if spell power increases both 'success chance' and spell 'damage' (for both stats to affect both types of spells)

then I'd be happy :)

 

Currently, I really like how a magic-specialized champion can get -50% mana cost for tactical spells.

I also like the 'meditation' spell which can increase mana production :)

 

Current game I selected 'dense' magical shards ... and its around year 200 or so and I'm getting 24 mana per season! xD

(just took over Kraxis, playing custom Sov + custom Faction)

Reply #19 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Tasunke, reply 18

Currently, I really like how a magic-specialized champion can get -50% mana cost for tactical spells.

I also like the 'meditation' spell which can increase mana production
End of Tasunke's quote

Mantel of oceans is great, but it should not reduce the mana cost for tactical spells to 0.

Reply #20 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Tasunke, reply 18
Well.

If spell resist increases both 'resist' and spell 'defense'

and if spell power increases both 'success chance' and spell 'damage' (for both stats to affect both types of spells)

then I'd be happy
End of Tasunke's quote

I'm not much into the hit or miss concept of resist able spells as they are now in game. I would prefer more along the lines of: if the spell is not resisted then it works on full effect (should damage apply then maybe still decreased by spell resist depending on spell), but if the spell is resisted then a minor version of the spell is still applied. Minor versions could have a effect duration of 1 turn or the effect is generally lower than the normal version. Of course the minor effect should not stack with normal version but is replaced by it.

 

Reply #21 from Elemental Forums Top

I think some spells already have minor version effects. It would just be a matter of adding minor versions to all resistables.

although I'm not sure that is the best approach.

Reply #22 from Elemental Forums Top

More scalable effects would be even better, but sometimes just not feasible. Especially when spells work with small numbers. (For example you can't downscale spell effect duration lower than 1 turn and such...)