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[Balance] Contagion v Fireball v Dirge of Ceresa

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[Balance] Contagion v Fireball v Dirge of Ceresa

from Elemental Forums

Contagion is extremely underpowered.  Some comparisons:

Contagion:  Costs 18 mana.  3 dmg per UNIT, +1 per death shard.  Damage repeats every turn, is resistable.  Note that this is poison dmg, and every elemental unit is immune to poison.  This is so little damage that it's laughable.  If the damage was per figure then it might be viable.

Fireball:  Costs 30 mana.  6/+3 per FIGURE.  Some creatures resist fire but not very many.

Dirge:  Costs 24 mana.  6 dmg per FIGURE, +3 per death shard.  Damage repeats at 3/+1 every turn and is NOT resistable.  Once again this is poison damage.  This spell is basically fireball vs. every target on the enemy side, plus ongoing Contagion.  This one is completely over the top, and should probably be toned down some.  Note it is also Wraith-faction only, and the Wraiths have the means to garner a large number of Death Shards.

In a combat which lasts for 3 turns and has 4 enemy units consisting of one solo and 3 stacks of 3 figures each (think Spiders), the spells above would have the following output.  Two death shards and two fire shards are assumed for these calcs.

Contagion:  (5 dmg per turn x 4 units x 3 turns) = 60 total dmg output over 3 turns.

Fireball:  (12 dmg on cast x 1 solo unit) + (12 dmg on cast x 3 units x 3 figures per unit) = 120 total dmg output.  Note in a 3 turn fight you could cast this two more times for similar output.

Dirge:  (12 dmg on cast x 1 solo unit) + (12 dmg on cast x 3 units x 3 figures per unit) + (5 dmg per turn x 4 units x 3 turns) = 180 total dmg output.

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16,259 views 33 replies
Reply #26 from Elemental Forums Top

It sounds like I am going to need a low level wizard in every group to avoid getting slammed by Fireball. Either that or some really good archers. 

Reply #27 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting seanw3, reply 23
As I've said earlier, I think a basic melee attack should only be able to kill 1 figure at a time. (if the attacker is only 1 human sized figure). Obviously large monster sized figures might can attack more than 1 ... but a 2000 damage champion killing a 20 person unit in 1 hit without using any special abilities seems kind of strange. If you want him killing a bunch of dudes, just increase his initiative or something ???
End of seanw3's quote

It's not the strangeness thats the problem, it's that such multi kill makes for a really generic fighting system. With the system you mention you can have weapons/traits/spells/stats that specialize in dealing dmg to multiple people as opposed to others that work better vs single targets. With current system you just give warrior heroes as much strength as you can and use whatever spell does more dmg.

 

Also I find it strange that no one has mentioned that as soon as the AI is upgraded it will be impossible to use these spells on any enemy with even a lv1 mage, unless AI is made purposefully stupid with counterspell or the current counterspell system is just a placeholder (Hope So).

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Reply #28 from Elemental Forums Top

Actually, as we will likely see in the new beta release, Fireball is becoming harder to successfully attack with, but more powerful for Fire Wizards. A low level mage may be able to cast Fireball, but the mage must also have Impulsive, other high Initiative bonuses, a Fireshard, and or Evoker to win a battle of magics. So now the level of the caster is very important to success, though only one successful attack is probably required to win a battle. On top of that, the number of magic users is now important. I may put two or three Fire Wizards in an army to ensure the enemy won't have time to counter me. Beyond that, I may choose to adopt a mutually assured destruction tactic if the enemy casts first and I really need to weaken his or her front line. 

There is so much more involved in casting now. 

Reply #29 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting seanw3, reply 28
There is so much more involved in casting now. 
End of seanw3's quote

At least we hope so.

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Reply #30 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Derek, reply 15


I just tried this with the current internal build (2 of my guys casting fireball at the same time) and it worked fine.  We have fixed some bugs with the way casting times worked that may have resolved this.  But multiple units are supposed to be able to cast spells with casting times at the same time and it appears to be working correctly in my testing (with the internal build).
End of Derek's quote

 

YAAAAY FOR MASS SUMMONING!

 

You just made my day. Add " Elemental Swarm"  to strategies please.

Reply #31 from Stardock Forums Top

Quoting seanw3, reply 16
Great news. People may not always agree with your vision for the game, but they must agree that you are on top making your vision work well.

Perhaps I'll name a city after you when I rise to power. 
End of seanw3's quote

 

"Derek Paxton ruler of Australia"

Reply #32 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Werewindlefr, reply 18
I still fail to see the point of the DoT on Dirge. With such power, all units will already be dead :/. Maybe super veteran stacks will have 1-2 soldier left, but that hardly justifies an entire new spell of higher power.
End of Werewindlefr's quote

It's for when you are facing stronger units obviously. An extra +8 damage a turn or so against something with 200hp does add up to something significant.

Reply #33 from Elemental Forums Top

Even as weak as it is I still cast Contagion sometimes if I don't have anything else available.  As legaceez says above, the DoT does add up.