magic needs more seperation

from Elemental Forums

Currently, after playing 3 or 4 games with death magic mixed in as well as life magic, its seems not just weak but focused in the wrong direction for making it unique.

The elemental spell categories do pretty well within the expected specializations: fire is mostly damage, earth is protection and growth etc etc.

Life magic seems (with heal especially) to lack scaling but at least be relevant as well as thematically correct. Death magic on the other hand just doesn't really seem a worthwhile choice. It follows thematic elements (debuffs, sacrifice for power etc) but just lacks distinction in effects and falls down in relative strength.

My suggestion is also something of a question: where is the branch of magic that heavily invests in summoning? Every stock fantasy cliche of a evil wizard (outside of the LOTR perhaps) figures heavily in summoning or raising troops from somewhere else. Necromancy and Demonology figure rather prominently in the idea of the bad guys but in FE you can't summon so much as a skeleton. The elementals not withstanding, summoning troops just isn't much of a part of the game.

In comparison to its inspiration (MOM) this seems a rather large oversight: creatures that could be summoned were a very large part of the game in every branch of magic. Even certain global spells emphasized summoning (zombie Mastery anyone?).

My suggestion would be that with Death magic currently being a poor cousin to the other branches, and the lack of summoning creatures in general would be to re-orient the death magic category to more of a summoning branch of magic than an effects one. Bring back the armies of the shambling dead!

 

6,654 views 11 replies
Reply #1 from Elemental Forums Top

Thank you for bringing that to light. Skeletons are a necessity. While I am planning to as some serious content mods for the community, I would rather the basics be there to entice people to get the game. I know you guys are hard at work making new creatures, but please put this one on the list. 

FYI, I think making the models for monsters is probably the most time intensive part of development. At least it is in the top 5. This is one area where an indie game maker is at a huge disadvantage. 

Reply #2 from Elemental Forums Top

Bring on the skeletons! I want skeletons! :borg:

I think the general spell system is good, but the spells themselves and the scaling need some lovin'.

Star Control: Origins
Reply #3 from Elemental Forums Top

its not the system itself I mind, the mana production and adjustment in spell efficiency as one holds more mana shrines seems fine. Its just that summoning creatures in general is rather lackluster and death magic in specific seems ineffective and bland. The game could use a good dose of giant demon lords and skeleton armies with vampire generals for the people who wish to play a darker faction.

Reply #4 from Elemental Forums Top

death magic ineffective??

What game are you playing?

 

Damage from ONE spell:

That's 6505 total. From only 11 nodes.  ;)

 *Edit* Oh and thanks to stacked spell cost reducers & the Staff of Souls starting item i GAINED 27 Mana. :p

Reply #5 from Elemental Forums Top

'only' 11 nodes? That's more nodes than I've had at the end of multiple games :P

That said I agree, Death magic is plenty strong. Life magic's poor scaling on heal is an issue (and regen for that matter), though Life is otherwise strong.

I would like to see more summons than just elementals, kinda boring.

Reply #6 from Elemental Forums Top

lol 11 nodes is more than i saw in ALL my games combined :D

Reply #7 from Elemental Forums Top

Perhaps its an issue of the size of the game played? I have never seen 11 death nodes on one map period. Most of my opponents are long and dead before I ever reach that tipping point. As a comparison could you not achieve the same/better result with say 11 nodes and fire magic? Added to that is the better early game utility of fire magic.

Look I'm not saying that with enough resources you can't make it effective. Its just that death magic pound for pound at the levels I have played with seems not as effective, and even worse is BORING. I feel (and of course this is my opinion) that in both a method of making it more interesting and bringing an element to the game that seems lacking, you could give death a summoning focus.

To me it would be more interesting if that huge pile of damage at the end of the battle was sitting next to the name of my expensively summoned and maintained Demon Lord or some such.

I'd go through the trouble to find and capture 3 death shards if is was the requirement to summon my Lich hero. 

Hope that clarifies it.

Reply #8 from Elemental Forums Top

Just to make it more clear BeardyDan was using the 'wraiths' faction trait which provides a spell to transform any type of node into a deathnode, allowing him to stack up death nodes into a number that would be triple or quadruple what you might normally find. This brings an interesting element to light about how the nodes affect spells, and why having them strictly boost damage or effect might not be the best idea.

To address the original post, there are supposedly other means of "summoning" creatures by using diplomatic capital to hire fantastic beasts from camps. Assuming they are eventually made useful, this will at least cover some of the missing fantasy elements, but I must admit I agree to being saddened that I cannot summon an army to do my sovereigns bidding.

Reply #9 from Elemental Forums Top

As well as summoning, Fantasy is full of spells to charm, seduce, lure, transform.

At this stage, have we any spell to force à creature on the strategic map to join our cause?

Have we got a spell, to transform an enemy in a less dangerous oponent (frog or sheep transformation)?

There could also be a possibility for new schools of magic that could be new disciplins without shards able to have effects:

- Astral in link with stars, moon and sun as always been a religious and magic source in Fantasy to have effects,

- Inner powers (telekynesis, telepathy, suggestions, metamorphism).

Reply #10 from Elemental Forums Top

Basic raise dead is s staple of fantasy games. Really is strange that we have evil wizards without skelotons.It's not the most important thing but I can't think of any reason it couldn't or shouldn't be added eventually.

Theres some unit called a shadow or something but ive never even tried to get it.

also there is SHADOW WORLD, the rare quest reward spell but its a little broken. Summons mutiple death demon armies that just stand there.