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[Balance] Remove Cloud Walk

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[Balance] Remove Cloud Walk

from Elemental Forums

Teleportation is broken, period. It was broken in WoM, to the extent that I'm shocked this spell even made it in.

The player uses it better than the AI, it completely overrides normal movement once you have a significant mana income, and it makes distances nearly irrelevant (ignoring abuses with outpost borders entirely)

At most, I would say a high level research that allows an expensive pair of gates between two cities to be constructed, allowing one unit at a time to pass through per turn or something along those lines.

Allowing stacks of doom unlimited mobility is a bad, bad, bad idea.

Giving the spell a significant movement bonus instead would be powerful but not hilariously broken bonus.

94,542 views 38 replies
Reply #26 from Elemental Forums Top


I like the ability to teleport - but within limits.

1. "Town portal" type scrolls that you find out in the world.   good for one use.

2. Cloud walking would be an option you could leave in or out when you set up the game.    This is too much individual taste to go either way overall.    In fact there are a number of features that should be beginning of game options.

3. Cloud walking should have a longer cool down time.

Reply #27 from Elemental Forums Top

Maybe Cloud Walks should only be possible to places where there is a champion (friendly or enemy) in your territory?  Maybe you should also have to be in your territory to cast it?

 

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Reply #28 from Elemental Forums Top
It's already been suggested, but make it a "jump" across a fixed distance over any terrain. Say 3 squares +1per air shard, and this allows you to bypass a mountain range, small lake, or other obstacle. It would then be a air caster's counter to an earth caster who rings their territory with mountains. A knight movement in chess, rather than air dropping a queen onto any square on the chessboard.
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Reply #29 from Elemental Forums Top

Maybe cities could build a teleport portal - and you can only hop between those cities?

 

Or maybe the cost of cloud walk is dependent on distance and army size? so smallish army (4 units) may take 200 mana to cover 10 tiles, but 300 to covere 12 tiles,

Reply #30 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Breniir, reply 28
It's already been suggested, but make it a "jump" across a fixed distance over any terrain. Say 3 squares +1per air shard, and this allows you to bypass a mountain range, small lake, or other obstacle. It would then be a air caster's counter to an earth caster who rings their territory with mountains.

A knight movement in chess, rather than air dropping a queen onto any square on the chessboard.
End of Breniir's quote

I would like to second this suggestion. It would be a good way to change it so that it is no longer over powering but still useful. If this is done then the spell cost should be reduced to half of its current cost I would also make it so that you can only cast it once ever 5 turns.

Reply #31 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Breniir, reply 28
It's already been suggested, but make it a "jump" across a fixed distance over any terrain. Say 3 squares +1per air shard, and this allows you to bypass a mountain range, small lake, or other obstacle. It would then be a air caster's counter to an earth caster who rings their territory with mountains. A knight movement in chess, rather than air dropping a queen onto any square on the chessboard.
End of Breniir's quote

lol. A very cool and useful metaphor. I couldn't agree more. k1

Reply #32 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting DsRaider, reply 25

What it comes down to is that what type of game you want to play. It is impossible to call Elemental a strategy game with Air Walk as is. You just teleport around with one big stack murdering disadvantaged AIs and farming monsters, never having to worry about coming under attack or planning ahead at all. That may be fun but it's not strategy. Strategy games are all about having to move over terrain and planing ahead to counter enemy moves.
End of DsRaider's quote

To plan, you'd need an army system & battle system that really works. Currently the one in this game is a laughable joke, I think everyone is being too nice to StarDock - the whole idea of armies and combat needs to be totally reworked from the drawing board up.

Reply #33 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting OrleanKnight, reply 32
To plan, you'd need an army system & battle system that really works. Currently the one in this game is a laughable joke, I think everyone is being too nice to StarDock - the whole idea of armies and combat needs to be totally reworked from the drawing board up.
End of OrleanKnight's quote

Frankly that's your opinion, I don't think most people on this forum would agree with you. I think the main problem is just balance and the beta just bloody started so of course the balance is off. They have been fixing stuff at a pretty good pace. The game is already far more stable, more fun, and less buggy than WoM was on release. Does the game need a lot of work? Yes, but so far so good. Bitching won't make them work faster. If they start implementing stupid concepts, stop updating regularly, stop giving players feedback, or plan to release early I will be the first to complain and loudly. However patience is a virtue.

Reply #34 from Elemental Forums Top

What?  The same old discussion about teleport is now going on with cloudwalk.  Deja vu.  I don't use it much, but leaving it in is an option for some players to use.  If a player does not want to use it, then don't.  Simple.  Leave it in for  those who want to use it.    Or make it an option at game set up, with a check box to opt in or out. 

Reply #35 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Breniir, reply 28
It's already been suggested, but make it a "jump" across a fixed distance over any terrain. Say 3 squares +1per air shard, and this allows you to bypass a mountain range, small lake, or other obstacle. It would then be a air caster's counter to an earth caster who rings their territory with mountains.

A knight movement in chess, rather than air dropping a queen onto any square on the chessboard.
End of Breniir's quote

Rogdan the idea-killer supports this idea.

Reply #36 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting ElanaAhova, reply 34
What?  The same old discussion about teleport is now going on with cloudwalk.  Deja vu.  I don't use it much, but leaving it in is an option for some players to use.  If a player does not want to use it, then don't.  Simple.  Leave it in for  those who want to use it.    Or make it an option at game set up, with a check box to opt in or out. 
End of ElanaAhova's quote

One problem about leaving it in is that Brad is pretty good at AI, and it's possible he'll teach the AI to abuse its power.  Then it's back to being broken.  Opt out box is OK, although i'd rather see it replaced with something people wouldn't want to turn off.

Reply #37 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting ElanaAhova, reply 34
What? The same old discussion about teleport is now going on with cloudwalk. Deja vu. I don't use it much, but leaving it in is an option for some players to use. If a player does not want to use it, then don't. Simple. Leave it in for those who want to use it. Or make it an option at game set up, with a check box to opt in or out.
End of ElanaAhova's quote

The gist of your argument is that it's okay to have a incredibly unbalanced mechanic as long as only humans can use it so they can just pretend it doesn't exist? You could say the same thing about any other horribly unbalanced part of the game. Well it's fun abusing champion mobs and never building squads so they should just leave it in for those people who like that sort of thing.

Quoting smakemupagus, reply 36
One problem about leaving it in is that Brad is pretty good at AI, and it's possible he'll teach the AI to abuse its power. Then it's back to being broken. Opt out box is OK, although i'd rather see it replaced with something people wouldn't want to turn off.
End of smakemupagus's quote

Indeed it would be funny as hell to see some newb go "hey a empty city" and enter enemy territory then end his turn. Then baam a huge army consisting of every single AI unit and champion would appear out of nowhere and destroy him. Or even just end his turn while 1 or 2 spaces away from enemy territory. Sounds like a fun game to me.

Reply #38 from Elemental Forums Top

What? The same old discussion about teleport is now going on with cloudwalk. Deja vu
End of quote

Cloudwalk IS teleport. It has the exact same limit of only teleporting into your claimed city domain and takes caster and units/armies on tile.