Shards

from Elemental Forums


Although I have to wait until next Thursday for my copy of the game (Stardock--you will likely forever be cursed for not allowing me to have the beta this weekend... this is the first time in two years I have the wife and kids away ALL WEEKEND!!!!  Bad, bad Karma.....   ;P ) , I do want to address something that I feel has needed to be changed for a long time.

ALL shards should be beneficial to you other than increasing the mana that you generate.  For instance, to double the effect of say, a fire spell, you almost have to control the whole map to get 5 or 6 fire shards to create that effect in some spells.  What if the map has only two fire shards?  You're sort-of stuck in a bad way. 

Thus, I agree that fire spells ought to be boosted by fire shards, but they also ought to be boosted by *all* shards you ontrol to some degree.  For example, consider fireball.  I think it has a base damage of 8, with an additional 4 damage per fire shard controlled. That's perfect, but you ought to also allow a bonus for other shards, but to a lesser degree.  Thus, fireball would become 8 base damage plus 4 for each fire shard, plus, say, 1-3 additional damage (random) for each other shard controlled.  So, if you controlled two fire shards, 1 earth, 2 air and one water, the damage would be:

8 + (2*4) * (4 * rnd(1-3)) = 16 (base plus fire shards) + (4 to 12 more for other shards), for a total of 20-28 damage.

I just feel shards should be the most sought after thing in the game--the ultimate buff that wars are fought over (yes--like Master of Magic).  The difference with Elemental is there are more classes than just magic users, which actually appeals to more people.  No problem there... let shards buff weapons and armor.  Have a sword that is "air based" and have fun with it... +1 attack per round (due to light weight), that does 12 damage plus 4 damage for each air shard and 1 for each other shard controlled.  Or armor with defense bonuses.  Even weapons with embedded spells... a sword that does 14 damage plus flame dart to the target if you control 3 fire shards, etc.  How about a dagger that is earth-based that allows 1 additional attack per turn for each earth shard controlled?  Bows would be easy... how about a magical bow that shoots regular arrows, but if you have 2 shards it shoots arcane arrows, with 4 shards it has a 50% chance of shooting a flame dart, and with 8 shards it has a 50% chance of unleashing a firestorm?  Magic can STILL be the focus of the game, even if you want to be a heavily armored and armed warrior.

Lastly, we need to talk about the fireball spell.  In what world, other than WoM, is fireball NOT an area-of-effect spell????  I want to see that puppy explode with an AOE, and have a chance to knock opponents down for 1 turn, etc.  And we DESPERATELY need a sleep and/or paralyze spell.  You know--high critical chance on immobilized enemies.

Lastly, what about spell AOE?  You could have firestorm's damage be buffed only by fire shards as it is now, but the AOE be determined by TOTAL number of shards you control.  For instance, up to two shards, it only targets a 4x4 area.  Control 5 shards total?  It targets a 3x3 area, and so-on (doesn't have to be square targeting--can be like blizzard, etc., for intermediate).

The same could be done with weapons.  The scythe of wind, for example.  Hit an enemy, and that particular enemy takes the damage from the weapon.  However, that enemy and enemies within a specific AOE (determined by total shards) has a chance to be blown back a number of spaces (based on # of air shards) and either be immobilized for a round, or take damge from being knocked back.  Again--have a strong and impactful magical element even if you choose to be a warrior as opposed to a magic user.

I think this would add a considerable amount of fun and strategy to the somewhat basic battle scenes. 

The shards really do need to be a major power in the game.  I've been playing WoM quite a bit these past few months--always primarily as a magic-focused player--and I *never* make a rush for shards.  I always go after food.  Who cares if your spells do a little more damage?  Even as a magic user, get to legendary armor and you can sit back and cast away without getting hurt.  If you choose to be a warrior, the shards are practically worthless.  I'm afraid this will be even more the case now that the difference in warriors and magic users is significant (due to encumberance). 

7,402 views 8 replies
Reply #2 from Elemental Forums Top


Thanks!  I've just always felt that something with "Magic" in the title needs to focus more on magic.  Master of Magic was primarily a game of magic, so that made it easy to buff things up with shards.  I just really hoped to see more of a focus on shard use making them a very sought-after object in the game, and this can be done even if someone chooses to be more of a tank in battle than a magic user.  Like I said above, in <WoM> shards were about the last thing I really ran after.  Without question, food followed by rare resources (elementium) were the objects to seek out.

Offworld Trading Company
Reply #3 from Elemental Forums Top

Yeah, very good idea.  Surprised they didn't already add this.

Reply #5 from Elemental Forums Top

Good suggestions. 

Having spent LOTS of time modding spells in WoM, I can reasonably respond to a few of these issues as concerning WoM.

ALL shards should be beneficial to you other than increasing the mana that you generate. For instance, to double the effect of say, a fire spell, you almost have to control the whole map to get 5 or 6 fire shards to create that effect in some spells. What if the map has only two fire shards? You're sort-of stuck in a bad way.

Thus, I agree that fire spells ought to be boosted by fire shards, but they also ought to be boosted by *all* shards you ontrol to some degree. For example, consider fireball. I think it has a base damage of 8, with an additional 4 damage per fire shard controlled. That's perfect, but you ought to also allow a bonus for other shards, but to a lesser degree. Thus, fireball would become 8 base damage plus 4 for each fire shard, plus, say, 1-3 additional damage (random) for each other shard controlled. So, if you controlled two fire shards, 1 earth, 2 air and one water, the damage would be:

8 + (2*4) * (4 * rnd(1-3)) = 16 (base plus fire shards) + (4 to 12 more for other shards), for a total of 20-28 damage.

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This can be done in WoM.  Easy, but time consuming.

Even weapons with embedded spells... a sword that does 14 damage plus flame dart to the target if you control 3 fire shards, etc. How about a dagger that is earth-based that allows 1 additional attack per turn for each earth shard controlled? Bows would be easy... how about a magical bow that shoots regular arrows, but if you have 2 shards it shoots arcane arrows, with 4 shards it has a 50% chance of shooting a flame dart, and with 8 shards it has a 50% chance of unleashing a firestorm?
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In WoM the XML isn't rich enough to handle most of these ideas, though Kenata created a mod along these lines.

And we DESPERATELY need a sleep and/or paralyze spell. You know--high critical chance on immobilized enemies.
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No way to set tactical movement to zero in WoM, or it would already be done.  It can be done on the Strategic map however.

Lastly, what about spell AOE? You could have firestorm's damage be buffed only by fire shards as it is now, but the AOE be determined by TOTAL number of shards you control. For instance, up to two shards, it only targets a 4x4 area. Control 5 shards total? It targets a 3x3 area, and so-on (doesn't have to be square targeting--can be like blizzard, etc., for intermediate).
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Meta-magic traits like range, radius, duration, mana cost, etc are not open to variables in the WoM XML.  Hopefully they fixed this in FE.

Again, I'm not trying to gainsay any of your ideas, just letting you know what was possible in WoM, all of which is hopefully rectified in the FE XML.

Reply #6 from Elemental Forums Top

Um, magic heroes have other ways to increase spell power...  o_O

 

This would make it ridiculous if you got to Evoker III.  You should play the game. I know you can't, but much of what you said is already addressed. 

Reply #7 from Elemental Forums Top

Indeed. Late game mage heroes can devastate entire armies due to Evoker and tactical cost % reducing abilities/equipment. You will be _starving_ for the mana shards provide, and there are spells that can convert shards from one type to another.

Reply #8 from Elemental Forums Top


So good to hear!!!  I'm glad that some f these ideas have already been tossed into the mix.  Do they give you "credit" for all shards you have on every spell?  Like fire spells... do you at least get a little boost for other shards you control?

mqpiffle--thanks for your input.  Modding is something I've never tried, and I'm not sure how complicated that would be.  I've done quite a bit of self-taught programming in VB (mainly to create algorithms for engineering calculations for my business), and have modded xml files for audio/video programs (yamj, etc.), but have never tried to tackle this.  Even though their current programming doesn't allow for that (via xml modification), would it really be that difficult to redo some of the code to make these work?  I assume this would have to happen on Stardock's side.

And you're right... I can't play the game right now but am waiting impatiently!  Thus, if I say something that seems completely ignorant (which I actually do quite often o_O ), simply ignore it...!

Lastly, fireball.  In WoM, for me, it has never been an AOE spell.  That was the first spell I rushed to research, but it wasn't AOE.  Game bug on my end?  It just hits a single unit for some pretty paltry damage (it hits one "unit", but the damage is based on the # of members in that unit... hit a single monster or hero and you've wasted your mana).  Thus, firestorm became my main offensive fire spell, and since it has a cool down I always learn spell blast and blizzard.

The spells in WoM were really quite a disappointment.  I use very few of the overall spells... I think only Arcane Arrow, Flame Dart, Firestorm, Spell Blast, Blizzard, Nature's Bounty, Alchemy, Return, Teleport, Call to Arms, Guardian Ward and Spell Block.  Considering the total number of spells, that's a lot that goes to waste.  The weapon buffs are insignificant even early in the game, and what good is a spell for a mage if you have to be right beside an enemy?  If it's come to that, that spell needs to absolutely kick some booty.  I just get the overall feel that no one sat down and really asked the question, "If I were playing would I *really* use this spell???"

I really want to emphasize, however, that it's the easiest thing in the world to sit back and pick apart someone else's work.  From what I've seen I'm very impressed with FE, but would just like to see more use of the shards in the game.  I still remember when the rumors began that Stardock had bought the rights to the Master of Magic stuff... I even wrote Stardock as soon as I heard (years before WoM release) to see if they would confirm the rumors.  I watched and watched and watched the game release list in Computer Gaming World until it finally showed up, and even then it was more than a year away!  I have been longing for *years* for a modern-day MOM.  Still have MoM running via DOSBox on my PC :w00t: