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Version 1.4 discussion thread

Version 1.4 discussion thread

Work in progress

For the first time since The Corporate Machine, I have a version of one of our games 100% in my hands.

So v1.4 is all mine. Everyone else is now fully on Fallen Enchantress. 

I'm not on FE yet because some of the mechanics are still being implemented so I can't work on its AI yet.

It's just you guys and me.  So it's like being a modder again except I get to play with the source code.

In this thread, I'll be hanging out talking about the "stuff" I'm doing.

 

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Reply #101 Top

Ironically, in Fallen Enchantress, city upgrades are totally different. You get to choose from a set of unique city improvements.

Reply #102 Top

Well the AI is definitely getting better (I think) in this build:

 

Reply #103 Top

Quoting Frogboy, reply 102
Well the AI is definitely getting better (I think) in this build
End of Frogboy's quote

 

Snazzy :-)

 

Reply #104 Top

While I usually lose at challenging or above (I play the game as a game rather than trying to play it as "aha! I found an exploit") I still see issues that I'd like to address.

I am thinking that v1.4 will likely be the last update that I work on as it's gotten to the point where it's "good" and I don't want to take time away from FE.  I played a 7 hour game today that was pretty satisfying.  Most of the things I'd like to change are already in FE (i.e. major game mechanic changes, particularly with the economy and tactical battles).

The big problem with tactical battles in WOM (and I am trying to be reasonable here since I didn't write it and I don't want to be accused of being one of those "if I didn't code it, it's crap!" things) is that the tactical units just don't recognize the importance of position. I've been tweaking as much as I can on this but it's a big system that would take a long time to understand. I'm really just a glorified modder in this area.

The dynasty system and diplomacy system are the things I wish I could dedicate a good month or two to. Again, these are areas I wasn't involved in in the original game but having played it, I think there's a lot here.  But again, it's one of those things that I'd be better off improving in FE (FE doesn't have the dynasty system at all but I am hoping it'll come back in some future version).

My #1 complaint with the game, which I think 1.4 much improves on, is the sheer difference between auto resolve vs. manual resolve. It's still sufficiently unsatisfactory to me that I know I'll never be happy without rewriting it. Again, it's something that FE resolves (the auto-resolve in FE simply runs through the auto-play of tactical battles, in WOM, it's a different system).

That said, and I'm not trying to poop on WOM here guys, 1.4 is looking much funner than any previous version. It's certainly less buggy. I could write a lengthy tech article on how improtant multithreaded programming is in games yet how few people are comfortable at it.  If you've played Civilization V, you know what happens if multithreading isn't made a major part of the game (end turn times).  But the downside of multithreading is stability if you're not comfortable dealing with it.  I've had to do a lot of work with v1.4 to make it more stable. It's not even "buggy code" issues as much as just the fact that what works fine on say a 2-core system falls apart on a 4 core system or what works fine on a 4-core system starts "crashing" on a 6-core system.  Most people aren't mutants who started this stuff in the early 90s. But it's taking me some time to unknot some of this stuff.

Anyway, I'm feeling pretty good about v1.4.  I was at Best Buy yesterday and War of Magic was on the shelf. And my view is, would someone feel good about WOM if they started with v1.4 and my answer is a resounding yes.  v1.4 is far better than say Galactic Civilizations II out of the box was.  

Reply #105 Top

Thanks for the updates. I wish the town tile animations could find their way back in but WoM still looks good.

Reply #106 Top

Quoting Frogboy, reply 104
The dynasty system and diplomacy system are the things I wish I could dedicate a good month or two to. Again, these are areas I wasn't involved in in the original game but having played it, I think there's a lot here.  But again, it's one of those things that I'd be better off improving in FE (FE doesn't have the dynasty system at all but I am hoping it'll come back in some future version).
End of Frogboy's quote

Fallen Enchantress: Dynasties

Perfect main focus for an expansion. I wouldn't mind.

Quoting Frogboy, reply 104
Most people aren't mutants who started this stuff in the early 90s. But it's taking me some time to unknot some of this stuff.
End of Frogboy's quote

I didn't understand the above at all. Do you mean that most are pretty new to multithreading and you need a lot of experience to get an instinct on what works and what doesn't?

Reply #107 Top

Question - is v1.4 going to alter or address combat initiative?  Perhaps move to by each unit from each side to help balance this out?

Reply #108 Top

Thanks for the updates.

Are you planning on releasing another 1.39x PRC beta or are you just going to release 1.4?

Reply #109 Top

New beta should go up this week.

Here's what's new:

 

+ Max army size reduced from 12 to 6 units
+ Tech multiplier reduced from 1.5 to 1.3 (faster research)
+ Higher level monsters will spawn later in the game no  matter what
+ AI smarter about targeting in tactical battles (not always the "toughest" unit)
+ AI more generous about imbuing their champions
+ AI more likely to choose guardians on city upgrades
+ Fixed bug that resulted in the AI not reliably learning higher level spells
+ AI more greedy when demanding tribute
+ Fixed bug from 1.4 beta 1 that caused units not to automove.
+ Fixed bug where if the AI hated everyone they would still say they're handing their kingdom over to (blank)
+ City Hubs store more population
+ City Hubs provide less zone of control by default
+ Increased # of turns on many improvements from 1 turn to 3 turns
+ Embassies are no longer an unlimited improvement
+ Fixed strange noises quest to have an illustration
+ Fixed the train unit window UI where the unit costs were messed up
+ Named the dog unit's default name from "dog" to "annie" in honor of Paul Boyer's dog (the dog is visually based on Annie)
+ New title logo
+ Vastly reduced the cost of a non-aggression pack
+ Teleport spell cost increased from 40 mana to 250 mana
+ New flavor text added
+ Reduced the value of monuments to the AI
+ City Guardian units buffed. They're much more powerful now, correspond with city level

 

Reply #110 Top

Quoting cparkin01, reply 107
Question - is v1.4 going to alter or address combat initiative?  Perhaps move to by each unit from each side to help balance this out?
End of cparkin01's quote

No. That whole thing is in FE.

Reply #111 Top

BTW, I'm very pleased with how this build has turned out.  I'd say the AI improved more in this particular beta update than from 1.1 to 1.3 combined.

Reply #113 Top

I know everyone's getting hyped about FE, but I always thought there was a fun game buried in WOM.

Thanks for all your hard work bringing it out. 

Reply #114 Top

Wow.  New tactics may be called for since;

  • Max Army Size reduced from 12 to 6 units.
  • Teleport now costs 250 Mana.
  • AI smarter about targeting units in battle. (Will it target my Sovereign now?)
  • Guardians are much more powerful.
  • Bug fixed that prevented AI from learning higher level spells. (Will it cast Spell Blast, Touch of Entrophy and Spell Immunity now?)

I wonder, will the AI sovereigns put level up points into Intelligence so they can cast more powerful damaging Arcane Arrow and Spell Blast spells?

AI Question - the AI in WOM appears to be a generic AI where each Fraction does not choose among various strategic paths (ie. combat focused, magic focused, archer combat focused, diplomacy focused, plunder and raze, etc.) to follow, but rather seeks to follow a common optimal strategy. Is this correct?

Reply #115 Top

Brad I really appreciate all the work you are still doing on this game.  I hope that at the end of your work you will be able to take pride in this game.  A lot of publishers/developers would have just left it and moved on.  Your commitment to excellence is a virtue to look up to.  That being said, I still think you are trying to polish a turd, but I will eat said figurative turd if WoM truly becomes a good game.

Reply #116 Top

Bug fixed that prevented AI from learning higher level spells. (Will it cast Spell Blast, Touch of Entrophy and Spell Immunity now?)
End of quote

No, to my disappointment today, it is not casting those spells. The code in there that determines the "Best spell" is not determining those spells to be very good.  It's something I can look into but I'm itching to get onto FE.  

IF there's a v1.5 in the future, that's something I would work on along with the hero upgrading and some balance (getting rid of some unlimited buildings).

I won an allied victory today which was nice.  I played from 11am to about 10 minutes ago straight. No problems on my 2560x1440 screen. :)

Reply #117 Top

I understand; however, 1.4 still sounds like a great improvement given the other updates you have made.

In FE perhaps the AI will be more open to modding. In another game, the research, production, diplomacy and combat priorities were moddable. Essentially, it stored the AI routines as text files that the player could mod. You could have a variety of AI routines for each AI player with the software deciding which linked rountines to use based on a random number generated at game start (i.e. 21-40 use strategy 2 routines for research, production, diplomacy and combat objectives).

Example for a WWII Europe Game: Axis AI Strategy: 01-50 Conquer Russia First Strategy (Historical), 51-80 Conquer England First Strategy (Operation Sea Lion), 81-00 Egypt First Strategy 

Example for a Global WWII Game: US AI Strategy: 01-80 Europe First Strategy (Historical), 81-00 (Japan First Strategy)

Example:

Random Number for AI #1 = 27, then use:

Research (21-50 routine)
Production (21-40 routine)
Diplomacy (25-30 routine)
Objectives (21-30 routine)

Reply #118 Top

Quoting Frogboy, reply 116
I won an allied victory today which was nice. I played from 11am to about 10 minutes ago straight. No problems on my 2560x1440 screen.
End of Frogboy's quote

 

wow nice monitor mate.

Reply #119 Top

Looks great. One question I have though, are harbors/ships re-enabled? I'd hate to get 1000+ turns in to an awsome game again, and find out I'm stuck on my continent because I didn't pick the teraphorming book from the get go..

 

https://forums.elementalgame.com/411737

Reply #120 Top

Lesse, Downloaded the Latest beta and started a new game, Found that there still some issues with pathfinding, sometimes the automove seems to "skip a turn" it is manageable, mind you, specially when compared to the previous beta, but annoying.

 

I still find the 10 Prestige of the Beacon to be overpowering, your city seems to just grow on steroids, I would like to suggest a small nerf to the prestige or some Prestige Minus on city Level up. I find that latter option very interesting, as it would make the bigger cities grow slower, and make Prestige + techs more or less mandatory if you are after those lvl 5 cities, plus it is somewhat realistic, the bigger amount of people together, without indoor plumbing, well, things ain't pretty (and goes with how the big cities were, historically, population sinks)

 

Other than that, the game seemed a bit unstable, spat me right out without a warning or an error message, that has happened before, but never so fast.

Reply #121 Top

Played 1.4 for about an hour last night with no issues (quad core).

Met 1 Sov who declared war when I wouldn't pay him his Danegelt.

So far I'm steamrolling thru his towns using magic, but each one has better soldiers, so at some point I'll probably get my head handed to me. 

Reply #122 Top

Where are the release notes for 1.4?

 

I can't find anything about it except for vague references.

Reply #123 Top

https://forums.elementalgame.com/412162

Reply #124 Top

Good job so far! I'm gonna start a new game as soon as my free time permits.

Any chance of addressing some of the shop exploits?

I've made a list and some suggestions in this post:

https://forums.elementalgame.com/411971

Thank you.