Trojasmic Trojasmic

Can anyone at SD playing E:FE tell us if it's fun or not?

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Can anyone at SD playing E:FE tell us if it's fun or not?

from Elemental Forums

:ninja:

elemental
32,738 views 72 replies
Reply #26 from Elemental Forums Top

I do like a good harping.

Reply #27 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Frogboy, reply 13
The requirement for FE is that it must be awesome.  That will determine the release date on it.

It is substantially different from WOM though.  So far, quite a bit more like MOM than WOM was. 
End of Frogboy's quote

:drool:

Groupy 2 - Organize multiple applications into grouped tabs on your Windows desktop
Reply #28 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Trojasmic, reply 23
I like the sound of that and I'm willing to harp and harp until FE is really good.  Who's with me? 
End of Trojasmic's quote

I know that it's normally uncool (;-)), but I think this phrase is appropriate here:

Me too! =) |-)

Best regards,
Steven.

Reply #29 from Elemental Forums Top

A surprising answer would be: "No, honestly, it feels like rehashed rubble, but we are afraid to cancel the project because Brad would go postal and kill us all." :-)

Honestly, what answer would you expect? Could any employee working on a do-or-die project after a major market failure with the last one publicly admit the game is less than perfect? He/she would be fired on the spot in the worst case, and frowned-upon in the best case.

We just have to wait to see/test some publicly released material (beta?), but I don't know if SD plans a semi-open beta. I would say it might not be a bad idea - I definitely would not limit my beta tester team to rabid fans, because that won't give you objective feedback.

 

Reply #30 from Elemental Forums Top

Well, I think that would be a good idea.  But remember, even "rabid fans" (btw: that phrase has heavy negative connotations) did not think WoM was ready for release.  So it's not like fans can't provide useful feedback, but I do agree that feedback shouldn't be limited to fans.

Best regards,
Steven.

Reply #31 from Elemental Forums Top

I'm just going to assume it sucks and will disappoint me like EWOM did so that when FE is better (it will be better, RIGHT?  :ninja: ), I'll be that much happier and possibly able to forget the mess that EWOM is (yes, IS).

Reply #32 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting StevenAus, reply 30
Well, I think that would be a good idea.  But remember, even "rabid fans" (btw: that phrase has heavy negative connotations) did not think WoM was ready for release.  So it's not like fans can't provide useful feedback, but I do agree that feedback shouldn't be limited to fans.
End of StevenAus's quote

If you recall, the public beta of WOM ended about two months before release.  By contrast, FE will have its public beta drops right up to the near 11th hour.

Reply #33 from Elemental Forums Top

There was a long way to go from the last public beta to a workable and fun game.  There was a rush to release WoM, regardless of whether it made a big difference to the final v1.0 release and months after, with the teething problems with the new engine and all.  Anyway that is old news.  My point was that it looks like the same mistake won't be made with FE, and that's good. =)

Best regards,
Steven.

Reply #34 from Elemental Forums Top

Fo sho. I'm wit you.

Reply #35 from Elemental Forums Top

I thought the title of this post was so silly I just wanted to say: What kind of answer could you possibly expect in this thread? And I was flabbergasted to see Brad and Boogie reply frequently.

But

Quoting Frogboy, reply 22
The bottom line is, we require that our customers know that buying a Stardock game means quality and goodness and War of Magic failed that test miserably. It isn't enough for FE to be good. It has to be so much better that even those who were really disappointed with WOM will feel like this made up for it.
End of Frogboy's quote

if the same criteria applied for WoM (you wanted that game to be awesome, you thought that game was awesome -- but despite of your efforts and intentions you were mistaken), how can you possibly believe that you can ensure that FE will be awesome?

Reply #36 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting onomastikon, reply 35
how can you possibly believe that you can ensure that FE will be awesome?
End of onomastikon's quote
Brad knows the answer better, but besides restructuring the design flow and bringing Derek on for some pro management help, one big step we'll be taking (once the game is feature complete and we're onto the 'polish stage')  is making use of 'pre-reviews'.

What game developers can do is hire reviewers to do preliminary playthroughs of a WIP. They provide a solid idea of what the journalist/gaming community is going to see when they first run it, how it plays at that moment, and pinpoint some key problem areas for us to tackle.

Some back and forth there will go a long way to ensuring FE is a quality title.

Reply #37 from Stardock Forums Top

Quoting BoogieBac, reply 36

Quoting onomastikon, reply 35how can you possibly believe that you can ensure that FE will be awesome? Brad knows the answer better, but besides restructuring the design flow and bringing Derek on for some pro management help, one big step we'll be taking (once the game is feature complete and we're onto the 'polish stage')  is making use of 'pre-reviews'.
What game developers can do is hire reviewers to do preliminary playthroughs of a WIP. They provide a solid idea of what the journalist/gaming community is going to see when they first run it, how it plays at that moment, and pinpoint some key problem areas for us to tackle.

Some back and forth there will go a long way to ensuring FE is a quality title.
End of BoogieBac's quote

 

I want that job.

Does having a complete lack of writing skill lessen my chances?

Reply #38 from Elemental Forums Top

Hey, I want a job too...working in mental health is crushing my soul slowly...

Reply #39 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting BoogieBac, reply 36

Quoting onomastikon, reply 35how can you possibly believe that you can ensure that FE will be awesome? Brad knows the answer better, but besides restructuring the design flow and bringing Derek on for some pro management help, one big step we'll be taking (once the game is feature complete and we're onto the 'polish stage')  is making use of 'pre-reviews'.
What game developers can do is hire reviewers to do preliminary playthroughs of a WIP. They provide a solid idea of what the journalist/gaming community is going to see when they first run it, how it plays at that moment, and pinpoint some key problem areas for us to tackle.

Some back and forth there will go a long way to ensuring FE is a quality title.
End of BoogieBac's quote

Yeah either that or listen to the Beta community who were telling SD that EWOM was a 4 out of 10 before it came out...

Reply #40 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Lord, reply 38
Hey, I want a job too...working in mental health is crushing my soul slowly...
End of Lord's quote

Well, I'm not sure of what the exact differences are - but I daresay mental health is treated a little better in Australia then in the US (especially if funding is increased as both of the major parties have promised).

Best regards,
Steven.

Reply #41 from Elemental Forums Top

Yes, if the public is taking part in the FE beta, then *do* listen to them too, and you couldn't go too far wrong by taking genuine players' feedback and concerns into account before releasing.

Best regards,
Steven.

Reply #42 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Trojasmic, reply 39
either that or listen to the Beta community who were telling SD that EWOM was a 4 out of 10 before it came out...
End of Trojasmic's quote
  Indeed...what's nice this time around is that, by the time you guys get FE, it will be 100% feature complete (sans polish). No more "How should we implement this?" or "What about this feature?" discussions...you guys will have everything you need to pass gameplay judgement and suggest changes (and we have several months dedicated to making those necessary tweaks). WoM was in such a constant state of flux that a proper feedback loop could never be established.

...but let's not beat that long dead horse, shall we?  ;)

Reply #43 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting BoogieBac, reply 36



Quoting onomastikon,
reply 35
how can you possibly believe that you can ensure that FE will be awesome?Brad knows the answer better, but besides restructuring the design flow and bringing Derek on for some pro management help, one big step we'll be taking (once the game is feature complete and we're onto the 'polish stage')  is making use of 'pre-reviews'.


What game developers can do is hire reviewers to do preliminary playthroughs of a WIP. They provide a solid idea of what the journalist/gaming community is going to see when they first run it, how it plays at that moment, and pinpoint some key problem areas for us to tackle.

Some back and forth there will go a long way to ensuring FE is a quality title.
End of BoogieBac's quote

Thanks, that is informative. Changing the flow and the way that Betas are managed I think would be key. Well of course we are all wishing good luck.

Reply #44 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting BoogieBac, reply 10
Anyways, to the OP, I know Derek has played a bit. All I can comment on in a positive light is that he likes the camera controls I put in   WoM had the horrible problem of diorienting users with a too-freeform camera. We've re-enabled snapback by default (which we had in GC2) so you always come back to an oriented playing field. 
End of BoogieBac's quote
Can we have that as a patch for EWOM? Please!

Reply #45 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting StevenAus, reply 33
There was a long way to go from the last public beta to a workable and fun game.  There was a rush to release WoM, regardless of whether it made a big difference to the final v1.0 release and months after, with the teething problems with the new engine and all.  Anyway that is old news.  My point was that it looks like the same mistake won't be made with FE, and that's good.

Best regards,
Steven.
End of StevenAus's quote

The last public betas of GalCiv II and Sins of a Solar Empire had a "long way to go" too.  The difference was that WOM was a lot more complex than those games and that system just didn't work for WOM.  That's why since v1.0 we've moved to a system where we put out updates right to the 11th hour.

Reply #46 from Elemental Forums Top



if the same criteria applied for WoM (you wanted that game to be awesome, you thought that game was awesome -- but despite of your efforts and intentions you were mistaken), how can you possibly believe that you can ensure that FE will be awesome?
End of quote

Oh, I make no promises that FE will be awesome for you.  I only promise I will think it's awesome. Don't ever think for a moment that I make games for other people. I make them for me. :)

The difference between Sins of a Solar Empire, GalCiv, Demigod, The Corporate Machine versus Elemental:WOM is that on the former 3, I got to determine their "awesomeness" based on someone who was PLAYING the game and designing it. There was a distance between myself and the actual creation.  By contrast, on WOM, I was having a blast making quests, making maps, making heroes, notable locations, etc.  And the problem is that sort of "fun" (and a healthy amount of sleep deprivation) had a delirious effect on my objectivity on *the game* itself. 

My involvement on FE, outside of AI and design help is mainly in terms of complaining and suggesting -- which was my position on Sins, Demigod, and GalCiv.

Reply #47 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Frogboy, reply 46
My involvement on FE, outside of AI and design help is mainly in terms of complaining and suggesting -- which was my position on Sins, Demigod, and GalCiv.
End of Frogboy's quote

Sweet - good to know!

Reply #48 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Frogboy, reply 46


Oh, I make no promises that FE will be awesome for you.  I only promise I will think it's awesome. Don't ever think for a moment that I make games for other people. I make them for me.

End of Frogboy's quote

I can vouch for Brad that this true.  I once told Brad that EWOM needed hero traits like HOMM, items like Diablo, UI like GalCiv, AI like CivIV, quests like WOW, etc., and he told me that he doesn't make games for me.  Thankfully, Derek does and has announced those changes for FE.

Reply #49 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting BoogieBac, reply 42

Quoting Trojasmic, reply 39either that or listen to the Beta community who were telling SD that EWOM was a 4 out of 10 before it came out...   Indeed...what's nice this time around is that, by the time you guys get FE, it will be 100% feature complete (sans polish). No more "How should we implement this?" or "What about this feature?" discussions...you guys will have everything you need to pass gameplay judgement and suggest changes (and we have several months dedicated to making those necessary tweaks). WoM was in such a constant state of flux that a proper feedback loop could never be established.
End of BoogieBac's quote
I don't know that I consider this to be wholly positive. While I do think it's important to play the game when everything is working, to understand how it really all fits together, I also feel that it is also valuable to have testers playing the game in earlier stages of the development, where things may not all be working yet, but the game is a far more morphable thing.

Reply #50 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Trojasmic, reply 48

Quoting Frogboy, reply 46

Oh, I make no promises that FE will be awesome for you.  I only promise I will think it's awesome. Don't ever think for a moment that I make games for other people. I make them for me.


I can vouch for Brad that this true.  I once told Brad that EWOM needed hero traits like HOMM, items like Diablo, UI like GalCiv, AI like CivIV, quests like WOW, etc., and he told me that he doesn't make games for me.  Thankfully, Derek does and has announced those changes for FE.
End of Trojasmic's quote

Well, as the UI designer for both GalCiv and FE and the AI developer for both GalCiv and FE and that there have been no announced changes in the questing system or item system  I'm not sure what point you're trying to make here.  If you want to say WOM didn't meet your desires because of my design skills then knock yourself out. But WOM's issues had nothing to do with the original design of the game.

The most important thing about GalCiv was that I knew what the engine could and couldn't do when I designed it and hence the final game matched the design. With WOM, the design and the game engine didn't match.  With FE, the design has been made knowing the capabilities of the engine.  Combined with Derek's awesome design and project management skills (along with Jon Shafer's work as well) FE is looking pretty good.