DerekPaxton DerekPaxton

Quests

Quests

Good quests are hard to create.  I seriously considered removing quests from Elemental entirely (I still don't know which is the better design decision).  But at the end of the day part of what makes Elemental unique is the concept of these D&D type quests in a 4x game.  So right or wrong they are quintessentially Elemental, so we will make them great.

Which leads to the next question, what makes for a great quest?  In my opinion a great quest has to do one of 3 things:

1. Provide an interesting strategic option.  For example, a quest where the player can sacrifice a champion to a Death Demon in trade for a spell that allows the player to summon that Death Demon in battle.

2. A wild result, with quests we can have fun and make crazy things happen that we would normally avoid in a strategy game.  A bard brags that he knows a song that will summon a dragon.  The song doesn't provide any ability to control the dragon, but he's glad to play it for a few coins (the song may or may not spawn an angry dragon that runs around the map destroying people and cities).

3. Setup a long term goal (and sufficient reward) that the player can plan out and may affect her overall game strategy.  There are lots of examples of these coming.  We want the player to be able to explore the world and develop their own goals.  Opportunities should be visible from the beginning of the game and some may take hundreds of turns before the player is able to accomplish them.  Some may be combat related (trying to get an army strong enough to defeat that enemy), some may be economy based (gathering enough materials, metal, crystal, etc to be able to complete the next step), some may be exploration based (finding the things you need).  The best will mix these requirements or be able to be accomplished in more than one way.

Quests are the one area where randomness and lack of consistency is good.  We want some short and some long.  Some full of combat, and some without combat at all.  Some straight forward and some full of twists.  I also like quests that may not turn out the same way every time.  This can either be from a random chance of a twist in a quest, or two seemingly identical quests that diverge part way through.

For example the escort the nobleman's daughter quest can stay.  But we can add another quest that looks exactly like the first except that a group of bandits stops the party outside of the nobleman's estate and offers the player more gildar than the nobleman for the daughter.  The player then has the option to refuse the offer and deliver her to her father, attack the bandits, accept the offer and get gildar for the daughter or refuse the bandits and try to ransom the daughter to her father himself (with a chance for getting even more gildar).

And of course we need lots of quests.  It's one of those areas where you can't have too many.

 

I read through all of the quest ideas from the Design a Quest contest (https://www.elementalgame.com/contest).  The following are my favorites:

 

Swapped at Birth by rdkaye444

This quest starts when the player tries to marry off his first born child. The wedding ceremony is interrupted! Someone has come forward claiming that he was swapped with the heir as a baby, and the heir is actually the spawn of an other worldly being (demon or faerie, in essence a changeling). The accuser is a channeler, and the family of the other faction demands that the claim be substantiated before the marriage can take place.

The 'Advisor' to the hero (Janask I believe - he's the hero who joined ) then speaks up:

"There is a wise woman.. she lives not far from here (the location of the first born child). Go to her and she will be able to make the determination"

In a side note inform the player that he must visit the witch woman in an army that contains the first born and the accuser. Start the accuser token in the same location as the first born. The accuser and the first born must both go on this quest together.

If both the first born and the accuser move into the square containing the witch's hut, then they will get this response:

The wise woman examines the accuser and cries out "this is no child of this world!" The accuser - his lie now revealed - will kill the witch woman, and attack the player. The accuser is the changeling - and a powerful monster to boot.

If the player defeats the changeling, then he gets an amulet of persuasion (Charisma +3), and the wedding of the first born can then proceed.

I like this quest because it's tied to an important event.  I would probably increase the strategic options by allowing the player the option of standing by his heir and having the accuser killed in the beginning.  Or accepting the accuser right off, killing the heir and replacing them with the accuser.  If the player doesn't rule immediately and tries to determine the truth then there could be a 50% chance that the accuser was telling the truth and the opportunity to swap of the old child for a new hero (the accuser).

 

The Curse of the Slyph by Selphares

Quest Level : 3
Location: A Lake

Description:

By entering the location the armies of the Kingdom / Empire destroy by accident an important waterstone, which is used by the sylph to keep the water in that deserted region clean. No matter if the visitors are from a kingdom and feel sorry about this or if they are from an empire and just do not care about the incident, the Sylph cast a curse on them to force them to take the shattered waterstone along and find a way to rebuild it at its place of origin, which is a hidden wellspring that is because of the change of the world not any longer accessable to the Sylphs.

As long the curse is in affect the food production will be reduced by one. (Simply because their power over water and how it affects the fields.)

The other faster solution is to just eliminate the palce from the Sylpsh as a whole, which leads to experience and money rewards from the treasures hidden in the lake even an artefact if their defense forces are beaten which generates additional health generation and even destroys the curse or directly makes sure it is not casted. However this will lead to a heir and if something like that is not there champion to to turn to an enemy curse after a bit random set amount of turns. If he/she is currently in an army or city that army or city turns over to one of your enemy groups, since for some unknown reason your unit did fall in love with someone from the enemies.

The longer and let us say more good way invlves to travel to the wellspring, which is currnetly occopied by demons that got attracted by the magic nature of this place and which strenght is always equal or slightly stronger as the force that attacks or at least a challange. Which leads to experience and gold rewards equal to their strenghts and getting a new stone. As long the stone itself is possessed food production increases by 2 but after 10 seasons there is the chance that the Sylphs feel betrayed and start to curse at random seasons champions or heirs which turn to the enemy.

This of course never happens if the stone is brought back to them or if someone decides to kill them in the end anyway, which creates the result as mentioned at the beginning of units turning once against you.

Anyway if the artefact is brought back to the Sylphs in a reasonable time they remove the curse and offer as reward their hidden healing amulet. Additional to this they reveal a creature den or farm to the players in their kingdom / empire.

The thing I most like about this quest is that it starts the player out in the hole.  It's a fairly minor hole, the player can choose to ignore it if he has other things going on, but variety is always good and where 90% of the quests will offer opportunities, it's nice to have a few that aren't as standard.

I also really like that one of the options in dealing with this curse is to wipe out the Slyphs.  Player options are good and I'm always a bit annoyed when an RPG twists my arm to force me to do something that doesn't fit the personality of my character (as I imagine it).  I can imagine playing a game where I want to help the Slyphs and complete this quest.  But I can also imagine playing a game as Verga where if some dandelion eating water spirits ever tried to pull this crap on me I'd burn their lake down (I can only imagine the frightened engineer faced with the task of burning the lake down).

 

Forces in Exile by SinVraal

Rambling through the wilds you encounter a camp of mercenaries. The mercenaries tell you they once were a group of loyal knights fighting for King Leorg of the kingdom of XYZ.
Long ago an enemy sorcerer, named Ilgord, cursed them so that all their missions undertaking for their king were doomed. All deeds those brave knights approached following this coincidence went awry and soon the king banished them for their inabilty to protect the kingdom. If you were about to restore their standing as knights they would honour your deeds and stand aside your army.

a) "The hunt for vengeance"

Mission: You have to search for the evil sorcercer (enemy channeler of Empire XYZ) and kill him. As you enter the frontiers of kingdom XYZ Ilgord appears with his minions. Defeat all enemies.
Reward: 2 free tactical spells / map with location for "The chamber of fate"

[diplomatic faction standing with Empire XYZ slightly downgraded]

b) "The chamber of fate"

Mission: Those cursed bei Ilgord are magically inscribed in a tome in his chamber of fate. You have to use your magic on the thome to banish the magic and sign out the names of those cursed by Ilgord (dispel magic, e.g.?)
Reward: a chest filled with some gold and 3 enchanted items (staff, cloak + ring) / map with the location of a scroll

c) "Restauration of service" 

Mission: Find the scroll that is protected by the minions* of Ilgord (this scroll inherits evidence from a scribe about the sorcercer's deeds)
- all minions protecting the scroll must be killed / the scroll then must be taken to King Leorg
Reward: The knights* (former mercenaries (all in mid to high level armor ?) join your army

[diplomatic faction bonus* for relations with Kingdom XYZ increased]

* Number of knights and diplomatic faction bonus of objective c) can be customized according to game difficulty
so can be the numbers and difficulty of the sorcerers' minions

I like the concept of a cursed hero.  If it was me I would probably move this to a champion instead of a group of knights, then have the champion have to be on the quest and have his curse effect the party throughout (for example maybe all champions allies are -50% to defense and accuracy when in an army with the champion).

Then it becomes a cool way to earn a new champion, with his curse broken he could be really good.

 

Till Death Do Us Part by TheProgress

Basic outline:
Player makes deal with witch for an increase in power with fire magic as well as (potentially) getting access to 3 brand new fire related spells. The cost? The which must be the player's wife, and the player must sacrifice 200 people every 5 year from his kingdom for the witch to perform her ritualistic rejuvenation spell to become young.

The player is has the option of betraying the witch, but with each successful 5 year anniversary, the witch becomes more and more powerful.

Some technical details:
* Upon accepting the witch, the game treats the player as having +1 fire crystals but -1 of all other crystals.
* Quest introduces three unique spells that can only be gained through accepting the witch and supplying her for 200 people for 3 anniversaries (the player gains access to Flame sweep on the 5th anniversary, Summon living flame on the 10th anniversary and 3rd spell on the 15th anniversary):
o Flame sweep (tactical): Select target cell. All enemies (and only enemies) are hit up to 2 cells away from the selected center for 5 + (INT/5) + (# fire shards * 5) fire damage. When used on Living Flame summons, it actually heals them for half of the damage (as well as damaging any enemies in the selected area).
o Flame sweep (strategic): Select target tile. All enemies in tile take 5 + (INT/5) + (# fire shards * 5) fire damage. Tile burns for 5 turns. If enemy city is hit, buildings in selected tile have a small chance of being destroyed. If cast on a friendly tile, any living flames in the tile are healed for half of the damage.
o Summon living flame (tactical): Select target cell. One Living flame creature is spawned in the cell. Any units in any of the cells touching the cell where the creature was summoned are dealt 5 + (INT/5) fire damage.
o Summon living flame (strategic): Living flame creature summoned in selected tile.
o Soul burn (tactical): Select target enemy. If enemy has (16 + # fire shards) maximum health or less, enemy dies instantly (no resistant checks) and all adjacent enemies are dealt fire damage equal to 75% of unit's maximum health. Otherwise the unit takes 15 + (INT/5) + (# fire shards * 5) fire damage and if unit dies then all adjacent enemies are dealt fire damage equal to 25% of unit's maximum health.
* Living flame: the living flame creature has 20 + (# fire shards * 2) of health. I'll leave other balance to the devs, but I think the living flames should receive double damage from water based magic attacks (I also think they should have a 50% chance to avoid non-magical weapon attacks).
* Quest introduces the witch named Len'thala if player is male or a warlock named Kravyk if player is female.
* When first meeting the witch, she is old and fairly powerful. She has the equivalent stats of a level 8 sovereign (most of points put into intelligence and fire related spells). She has access to the flame sweep spell.
* If the witch is given the first batch of 200 people on the first 5 year anniversary, she gets younger and automatically receives a +1 to her level. She gains access to the Summon living flame spell.
* If the witch is given the 2nd batch of 200 people on the 2nd 5 year anniversary, she gets younger and automatically receives a +2 to her level. She gains access to the Soul burn spell.
* If the witch is given the 3rd batch of 200 people on the 2nd 5 year anniversary, she gets younger and automatically receives a +3 to her level. She gains access to no new spells. She no longer gets any more powerful from any future anniversaries.
* If the player fights the witch, the witch's strength depends upon how many anniversaries she has been allowed to complete her ritual.
* If the player is not at his capital the turn before his anniversary and the capital has less than 200 living inhabitants, the player loses the queen and a tactical battle starts between the queen and your other capital forces. If she is victorious, all inhabitants are killed (but city is not invaded / destroyed). Witch leaves forever.
* You cannot have any children with your queen until at least 1 successful 5 year anniversary.
* The queen cannot actually be used and cannot be seen / selected when "at your capital" (in reality, she just exists for tactical battles if needed.)

This is a really cool idea both to make for an interesting game and in the strategic options it opens up.  I can imagine it would be interesting to be able to look back and remember a specific game where you married this crazy witch/warlock and had to contend with her/him throughout.  This definitely fits into that 3rd option in my initial list for effecting the player overall strategy (in fact this is probably the best quest in the contest for hitting all three of the criteria from the thing I like most about quests).

 

Dark Rising by Kenata

Chapter 1: Rumblings on the Horizon

You come across a small farming hamlet, where the villagers greet you with frightened tales of Darkling attacks on caravans along the roads near the town. They have had trouble getting supplies, and ask you to help restore order. They give you a general idea of where to look at set you upon your way with what fresh provisions they can supply.

You come across a burnt caravan surrounded by the bodies of the various caravan guards and merchants. From under the ruin of the lead cart, you hear the weak calls of the last surviving merchant. He tells you of a brutal attack by Darklings, which were more organized than normal, and gives you information about where they were heading.

Following their tracks, you come across the raiding group, which had been attacking the various caravans. A battle ensues against a diverse group of Darklings lead by a frightful leader. Upon slaying the group, you notice all the warriors are marked with the same symbol. You can't put your finger on it, but the symbol seems so familiar to you.

Chapter 2: Twilight breaks

You seek out the home of an old researcher, known for his knowledge of the various languages and symbols of the world. Upon being told of the symbol, this wise man immediately loses color in his face and informs you of the ill omen that it holds. The Symbol is mark of Granox, an evil dragon who once attempted to overthrow the rule of the titans. Legend held that the great dragon could not be killed directly, but a great spell was cast that caused her to sleep. This spell was not cast directly so no one knew the exact location of her slumber. The sage warns that if she has awoken, thens he will also be rebuilding his armies to attack any who would deny her rule.

You set out from the home of an old researcher with knowledge of this new threat. Though you don't get far before word reaches you of several towns coming under attack from a powerful Darkling army, led by a great general of incredible skill. An army of this size is not hard to track and a great battle ensues against an army of incredible might. With his dying breath, the general laughs at you, calling his force merely a scouting party and stating that the real invasion has just begun.

Chapter 3: The Darkness Approaches

Word comes from far and wide of Darkling camps being set up all across the country side, and each lead by Darklings which fight with the fires of a demon. Each camp spawn fierce raiding groups which start attacking any thing they can find, cities, caravans, resources. They are not taking the resources, merely destroying everything in their wake with no regard for even their own lives. Five camps spawn and each holds an army lead by a demon Darkling, carrying a talisman. Each camp spawns raiding parties until they are destroyed.

Chapter 4: The Fading Light

Upon destroying all five camps, you notice that the talismans are a form of communication in themselves, but together they are beacon pointing towards a cavern in the mountains. This must be the location of Granox.

Upon arriving at the cavern, the player must fight a full group of high level Darkings clad in great armor with amazing weapons. When defeated, the player's party must fight the great force which has produced this threat, the Evil Dragon, Granox, and her lesser drake minions. Once Granox is slain, you hear a small hiss from a side tunnel, where you find the last child of Granox. This small dragon, barely out of its shell and not old enough to have felt the evil influence of its mother, takes to you as its new care giver. Along with all the gold and items of the cavern, you are also reward with this young dragon who has take up your cause.

I really like the story aspects of this quest.  Most quests build up throughout but the pacing on this one is particularly good.  And its only done in 4 steps so it keeps the player involved and moving throughout while still providing an interesting story.  I really like the darkling attacks on the cities.  In my mind that's what changes this from a RPG level character story to a 4x type story, and allows the players to see the results of their actions played out across the larger game.

 

Rod of Mages by Sungod79

During the war with the Titans, one of the elemental Shards was captured by human channelers jealous of and opposed to the monopoly the Titans held over the magical Shards. A circle of powerful mages was able to separate a piece of crystal from the Shard and neutralized it of any elemental bias. The crystal was then converted into the shimmering capstone of a powerful metallic wand known as the Rod of Mages. Later dubbed Titansbane in popular lore, the wand is said to have been pivotal in winning the war with the Titans and banishing them from the world. However, the shear amount of power focused through the rod during the final battle shattered it into pieces, killing those who wielded it (and, of course, those it was wielded against). Some whisper that the power of the Rod and its sudden destruction may have been part of the cause for the Cataclysm itself, but no one still alive knows if that is more truth or rumor. 

So, the Rod was understandably believed destroyed and lost to the ages. But that all changed when you, after researching into Master Quests, discovered a cave protected by four elementals--one from each element. Upon reading the manuscript retrieved after defeating those guardians, you learn that the Rod was protected by powerful magics that prevented its complete destruction. Reading the manuscript also adds a special Divining Spell to your spell book, which can be researched. Once researched and cast, the spell must be maintained with 1 mana per turn for the duration of the quest. Once cast, the location of the first piece of the metallic rod becomes visible. Three of the metal pieces constitute the base, two the holders of the capstone. Finding and defeating the magical guardians of the first piece gives your Divining Spell more power, allowing you to find the location of next piece, and so on until all the metal rod pieces are found. Once the 'rod' pieces are together, the metallic rod can be equipped as a "staff" (ie, no shield!) and used essentially as a divining rod, which leads you to the location of shardstone/capstone. The rod must be equipped in order to find and enter the final quest location to retrieve the capstone crystal, which is protected by an army of powerful elemental creatures from each element. Once they are defeated, the shardstone is retrieved and automatically joins with the 'divining rod' portion (which is dequipped and becomes the Rod of Mages, which can then be re-equipped as a "sword" (ie, you can now also equip a shield with it). Finally, the Divining Spell is automatically disbanded to regain 1 mana per turn.

When completed and equipped, you can feel the energy surging through a wand that seems light for its size (allowing greater combat speed) but that is strong enough in metal and magic to block the blow of any conventional melee weapon. The Rod gives the caster:

(Developers can play with the numbers, considering game balance, but my tentative suggestions are:)
+10 Intelligence
+5 Mana/turn
+5 power to any combat spell cast while equipped
+5 Attack
+10 Defense
+ Block
+2 combat speed
+1 Variable Shard (Set randomly to one of the four elements upon acquisition of the rod, the rod can later be dequipped and changed to channel a different element once per turn, any change becoming effective the next turn. This can be very useful if you are missing one type of elemental shard for the Spell of Making or want to otherwise emphasize a strength or help fill a weakness.)
+3 Charisma (people are overawed when in the presence of the legendary Titansbane!)
+ Magical Units Summoned while Rod equipped will tend to be stronger, with higher initial base stats.
+ Aura of magical resistance (increased resistance by unit and his army to all magical attacks)
+ Spells cast with the rod are harder to disband by any counterspell by opposing factions.

Note: There is only one Rod of Mages per game, but once found the nations of the world hear of the momentous news quite quickly. Thus once the Rod is completed by any player the Divining Spell becomes researchable by opposing factions who gain access to the quest for the Rod, which once cast allows them to "see" the unit carrying the Rod and anything visible to that unit. Also, factions with access to the quest also gain access to the Spell of Occlusion, which when researched and cast by the holder of the Rod can block the Divining Spell from allowing sight through the fog of war to see the unit carrying the Rod and anything in his visibility range, but will not block a locator beacon showing where on the map the Rod is at the present time/turn to any faction maintaining the Divining Spell. Very useful if you are the one who is going to need to mount a defence to such a powerful artifact... or attempt to take it for yourself!

There were a lot of ideas for quests that lead to powerful magic items, but this was my favorite.  I like that the player has to put the item together.  As a player I would be more motivated to seek out the pieces for an item like this than to simply go on a multi-stage quest with a magic item at the end.  It's also a throwback to D&D's old Rod of Seven Parts and helps tie the RPG and 4x questing games together.

 

That's it for my favorite quests.  We will have 5 finalists posted on Monday (Feb 7th) at 12:00pm ET so that you guys can begin voting for your favorite.  Be sure to check here to get all the latest information: https://www.elementalgame.com/contest

 

 

 

121,727 views 60 replies
Reply #26 Top

One thing I'd like to see in quests are more personal/internal quests. For instance, you enter a quest hut and the inhabit accuses one of your generals (champions) of having wronged them in the past. Or you find a treasure and two of your generals argue over who should get it. Or heck, even just that on the noble woman/man quest, one of your champions asks you if they can marry them instead!

Reply #27 Top

Quoting sagittary, reply 26
One thing I'd like to see in quests are more personal/internal quests. For instance, you enter a quest hut and the inhabit accuses one of your generals (champions) of having wronged them in the past. Or you find a treasure and two of your generals argue over who should get it. Or heck, even just that on the noble woman/man quest, one of your champions asks you if they can marry them instead!
End of sagittary's quote

I actually like this kind of personalization as well. It would be cool if there were choice options in quests that only were shown conditionally. For instance, one of the witch in Wild Goose Chase could become smitten with one of your male champions and offer to join your cause to be near him.

Reply #28 Top

I don't understand why it has to be either/or in regard to random global events and quests. Why can't a random global event be the beginning of a quest? Why can't failing a quest bring about a negative consequence that effects the whole world? Personally, I really enjoy random events in 4x games - they get quite stale without them and in WoM Quests don't quite take their place (in fact, the quests in WoM are just utterly tedious.) however the quests listed in the OP do sound extremely interesting. Looking forward to FE!

Reply #29 Top

My suggestion would be to take advantage of every aspect of the game to make quests.

So lets say a farmer is down on his luck and needs some food to survive.

You have 3 options:

Ignore the farmer, and he ends up moving and setting up a farm in a random other kingdom.

Give the farmer 5 food so that he can survive the winter, and he will send his strongest son to fight as a champion for you.

Kidnap his weakest son, and force him to set up a farm in your kingdom under threat of killing his son. (Son joins a champion that has pretty low stats).

 

I like having quests with choices, and it doesn't have to always be do you want x or y, it can be do you want x or your opponent to get x.

 

Another quest could involve a dark wizard wanting some mana and population to try out on inventing spells. If you agree, he has a 33% chance of giving it to you as promised, a 33% chance of attacking you and using it against you, and a 33% chance of failing to create anything useful. This can be a way to get spells from a book you don't have, or spells that are higher level than what you currently can cast. Maybe instead of attacking you by chance, he will magically summon a small army and decide whether he can defeat you with it. If not, then he just fulfills his promise.

Reply #30 Top

Don't have a lot to add - just want to say that any quest with sylphs in it is good.

The world needs more sylphs.

Reply #31 Top

Grats to those whose quests made the top of the list, and I hope all quests entered gave some ideas.  The concept of having quests in a 4x really did set Elemental apart to me, so I'm glad that its not being abandoned.

I think that the key issue for quests in Elemental isn't so much the quests themselves (though more diversity is always great) but the overall questing system as its implemented.  I think that some of the points brought up about long term strategic goals or random non standard mechanics in the OP is good to hear.  My personal peeve is the spawning system that quests have.  Early quests are fine right now - an extra bonus as you reveal the map and something that can jump start your cities.  But in the long run, really it seems that right now quests would appeal most to small kingdoms with limited resources needing to supplement their economy, or players that are at peace and something something to do other than hit next turn.  But since quests are randomly scattered, and because of the teleport spells existing in Elemental, quests are actually most available to large city spammers who probably have better things to do with their play time than micro quests.  They're spending their forces warring or expanding, or locking down permanent resources, not peacefully sitting there or turtling.  That might change as more long term quests are implemented, but I would like to see some mechanic that favored small kingdoms, and something in the questing realm would seem like a great option.  Just saying if you have more available quest range as a city spammer, and small kingdoms are now quest strangled as well as resource strangled, then questing becomes another go-large driving force, at which point the spamming player (time wise) is probably better off just warring and ignoring quests.  Maybe there could be a building related to spawning quests, with upkeep variable on overall number of cities (quests are more likely in the wild than near cities?).

Also, I would hope that if non standard mechanics and long term goals are being put in through quests that they are easy to track and quite clear to all players.  I don't want to have to click the enemy champ to find out that they have special fire skills vs their city to find out that a specific city has a special quest bonus to something, and then some unit to find out that they have special swords, and then their kingdom summery to find out that they have a food bonus, then the quest tracker to find out that they have a long term quest that will be completed in 40 turns.  Just an added request to collate it all at a glance to be able to know what to expect that might not match normal rules or needs some long term countering.

So in the end I guess its "yes please, more quests and more interesting ones" but also "just be sure they're put in such a way that players will be enticed to play them and not just a melange of buried random bonuses and unpredictable twists."  Regardless, just the thought of seeing some of the possibilities is enough to get me to grab a few of the questing tech tree items, which hasn't happened in awhile.  Its also an area where I hope to see plenty of modders adding their own unique twists in the future, so good news all around I suppose.

Reply #32 Top


Good quests are hard to create.  I seriously considered removing quests from Elemental entirely (I still don't know which is the better design decision).
End of quote

 

I hear you there. I find myself clicking "OK", "OK", "OK" through a majority of the quests, maybe its just me but I don't find them engaging. You can make as many "Go to location X, fetch item Y" missions as you want, and dress them up in different dialogues, but soon enough each one just feels just like the last.

Things that impact the game according to what I am doing in the world, would go a long way to make quests feel interesting and even exciting. The marriage one is a good example, and again forget about the particular details of the quest, for all it matters it could be your firstborn walking from the altar and declaring their secret love for another. The idea is that things related to what I'm doing in the game world are interesting.

Quests that neither pertain to my actions in the game world, and in many cases are completely insignificant to game play (reward-wise or otherwise), are simply a nuisance. By the end of a long game (if I bother researching questing) I have so many glittering piles of quest everywhere, it's hard to step around them. I have no idea which ones mean what, or if they're a starting location, ending location, or something in between. Sometimes I stop at a few but there's so much going on I can't keep track of it. Not that it seems to matter.

Quests triggered by diplomatic actions (wars, alliances), and military actions (great conquests, defeats), and things related to stuff around my empire, like a certain element shard malfunctioning, an empire-wide penalty (like the Slyph curse), and other stuff related to *my* particular empire would help make the quest system feel alive.

Reply #33 Top

Thanks for the update!  I'm glad to see such a focus in improving the Quests!

Some comments:

I agree with all 3 of your points.  I really like the Quest mechanic added to Elemental, it -could- add a whole new option to gameplay.  In its current form in Elemental it's a tantalizing treat that I just never get to explore often mainly because I get war declared on me by some powerful neighbor and then I spend the rest of the game research war stuff and fighting.  Adventuring (in fact every research line) should provide you with enough tools and rewards to protect yourself.  Focus into one branch should change the way you play the game and open new paths to victory.  Currently, if you don't focus pretty much only in combat research you're going to be at a disadvantage, even if you have the most powerful spells in the Magic branch or the most rewarding Quest in the Adventure branch.  Every game I've played has basically turned into a slugging match with the other factions.  The only way I can actually explore other avenues is if I set only one AI faction and hope I don't spawn right next to them on the map (which occurs with alarming frequency).  Seeing as how exploring (and rebuilding) a ruined world seems like a core idea in the game, it'd be nice to be afforded the opportunity to do so.

 

I'd actually add a 4th point: Choice.  Give the player different options in a Quest.  Your suggestion with the nobleman's daughter is great.  Currently the player has only two options: do the quest or don't, which really isn't any different from any other decision you'd make in the game.  Thinking about this I'm almost envisioning Gal Civ II's good and evil system.  Each choice you make can affect your good or evil (Kingdom or Empire) balance, gaining or losing favor amongst the other factions, and gaining or losing abilities depending on your decisions.

 

Also randomizing the sort of enemies you seem in dungeons would be a great change.  Basically right now I can just train archers and win every fight, dungeon or faction, without any problem because I already know immediately what's going to be there.

Reply #34 Top

Wow, there is some really creative stuff there; good thing they were judged on their content and not their composition.

 

Derek, have you played King Arthur The Roleplaying Wargame? They have a really cool take on a quest system that is basically choose your own adventure. Check it out to get some ideas!

Reply #35 Top

Questing helps the fact that this is a 4x/rpg cross over game.  The RPG gives another area to invest in (the strength of your empires heros) and gain benefit from (questing and their strength in battle and to the economy).  If you lost the quests, it significantly devalues the heros to where they are just a different combat unit.  With the quests is shifts the economic nature of the game

 An economic view of a 4X game could be described as follows

Start with some basic resources

  • Economy uses current resources and territory to produce more/different resources in the future
  • Technology uses current resources to produce new/better resources/military/economy in the future
  • Military uses current resources to protect the economy/territory, or to take new territory

More subtle interactions exist

  • Diplomacy assists a rival in order to gain different resources or protect territory
  • Magic uses resources to do just about anything

Now we have the new category

  • Heros use resources and may assist the military or produce resources/affect everything by going on quests

It does change the focus, but it changes to an interesting place where the heros and the cities matter.

Reply #36 Top

Quoting troglyte, reply 32




quoting post

Good quests are hard to create.  I seriously considered removing quests from Elemental entirely (I still don't know which is the better design decision).


 

I hear you there. I find myself clicking "OK", "OK", "OK" through a majority of the quests, maybe its just me but I don't find them engaging. You can make as many "Go to location X, fetch item Y" missions as you want, and dress them up in different dialogues, but soon enough each one just feels just like the last.

Things that impact the game according to what I am doing in the world, would go a long way to make quests feel interesting and even exciting. The marriage one is a good example, and again forget about the particular details of the quest, for all it matters it could be your firstborn walking from the altar and declaring their secret love for another. The idea is that things related to what I'm doing in the game world are interesting.

Quests that neither pertain to my actions in the game world, and in many cases are completely insignificant to game play (reward-wise or otherwise), are simply a nuisance. By the end of a long game (if I bother researching questing) I have so many glittering piles of quest everywhere, it's hard to step around them. I have no idea which ones mean what, or if they're a starting location, ending location, or something in between. Sometimes I stop at a few but there's so much going on I can't keep track of it. Not that it seems to matter.

Quests triggered by diplomatic actions (wars, alliances), and military actions (great conquests, defeats), and things related to stuff around my empire, like a certain element shard malfunctioning, an empire-wide penalty (like the Slyph curse), and other stuff related to *my* particular empire would help make the quest system feel alive.
End of troglyte's quote

This is the thing that worries me. It just really really seems difficult and extremely labor intensive to pull off. Not only do you need a writer (or five or ten?) to write huge number of well written quests, you also need a designer to tie each quest into the game with a reward/consequence that is both gratifying and balanced for gameplay. That is a very fine line. If the reward is too good, then you trivialize the rest of the game. If its not good enough than the player feels he's wasted his time. I'm glad I don't have to do this.

Reply #37 Top

I like the quests listed here and would like them all, and more to be added. There is plenty of room for many, many quests in this game.

 

One note about rewards/treasure: currently, most quest/goodie hut rewards are obsolete as soon as you get them.

Is it not possible to have the bonuses of the items scale, i.e. +1 or +2 above the highest currently researched weapon?

 

Reply #38 Top

"I seriously considered removing quests from Elemental entirely (I still don't know which is the better design decision)"

 

One thing I suggested some time ago is the concept of multi-level dungeons.

 

Right now quest looks like a fed-ex job, move there and do that. It also feels somewhat imposed by the game, and it feels more annoying to start than anything else.

 

My suggestion is that quest are in fact special locations on the world, like a creature lair, or an evil wizard tower, or what ever you can think.

That location does stuff through the game that hinders the player in it's surrounding areas. A bit like nodes that spawned creature to attack your cities.

Then heroes can decide to adventure in these locations to weaken the power of the lair, or find treasures or simply eradicate the menace. That cannot be done in one round, so heroes must adventure multiple times in the lair before it is destroyed once and for all. There also needs some spacing between intervention. It might implemented as the location is deactivated and some event will revive it. (ex: another wizard find an evil artifact lost in the ruins and decides to revive the tower)

 

What is the advantage of a design like that:

1- No wander around the map: You do not constantly move around the map.

2- You see your target quest

3- These locations get known and get an history.

4- Might be easier to implement: only 1 location to define and they are placed during map creation.

5- You decide when it's time for intervention

6- Other players can fill the quest before you do.

 

I don't know what you think. If you need more details, let me know.

Reply #39 Top

 

Toby recommended another one be added to the final five:

 

Demon Lord by Tydorius

When I first bought Elemental, one of the expectations I had was that of active adventurers, going out and doing wonderful or horrible things. It was advertised as a game where you were the ruler of a kingdom that was filled with your typicaly D&D adventurers, who, good or evil, for better or worse, made things better, or worse. I expected to see adventurers enter dungeons and unleash lich armies, or anger bandit kings. I expected minor factions that came and went as the game progressed. This was not what I witnessed when I started playing. I propose to make it so. I propose a quest that would put these mechanics into the game and add the xml tags for modders to do the same.

So anyway, the quest:

-----

Lord of Demons:

The Titans, in their glory and power, once recruited allies from beyond the void. Mighty portals were erected, Demon Gates. Of these, only few survive, and those summon forth creatures that are nothing compared to the power of their predecessors.

Bound and shackled by these gates, these creatures are but fodder for the wars of the pathetic humanoids that dot the surface of Elemental.

But deep in the recesses of the oldest parts of the world lies a different gate. A gate forged by the Dread Lord Himself to summon forth the Lord of Demons, Col Pordai. It was there that the alliance was struck between Empire and Demon, and from there came the First Rank, generals given by Col Pordai to help errect the Demon Gates and bring forth legions of his host.

But demons cannot be trusted. Once the First Rank had sufficient forces on Elemental's plane of existance, they turned on the Titan, forcing the Dread Lord to crush them and momentarily grant his foes a respite from his onslaught as he turned inwards. The fighting was brutal and littered the land with corpses, demonic artifacts lost for ages amongst forest, mountain, and plain. Finally the First Rank was destroyed, sent back to their plane, and the gates were sealed until the Dread Lord could rework them to shackle those that were pulled through, thus creating the Demon Gates as we see them today.

Now, years after the Cataclysm, the Dread Gate lies somewhere in the world, forgotten by time. Battlefields litter the land with clues leading to this great discovery, and treachery and death await all but the most resourceful adventurers.

Quest Chain - 

Player discovers a battlefield as they always do, looking for a midnight stone or something else. Instead they find clues of a battle between Fallen and Demons, leading them to their next objective ->

Next objective is a standard Demon Gate, though long abandoned and useless. This gate was also the site of a battle, far greater than that previously found by the player. The player finds more clues, broken pieces of Elementium based armor (Perhaps a whole battlefield full) that can be harvested as the resource for later use. Also a randomized item - Elementium armor piece (Helm/grieves/gauntlets/whatever) or weapon (Battleax/sword/dagger) that entices the player to move on. ->

Third objective is a massive citadel found in an isolated part of the world. Mostly ruins, and dangerous. This is the site of the original Gate, and the last battle before the Dread Lord succeeded in sealing them.

This objective triggers a battle, on a unique field - Interior.

The tactical screen would be the interior of a great room, with collapsed columns and maybe daylight pouring through cracks in the cieling, windows, and walls, an entrance at one end and a huge gate at the other, scorchmarks everywhere, and demons infesting the place.

The primary creature, i.e. boss character type, would be a recovering demon of the First Rank that survived. Demons, being immortal beings from another plane of existance, can take ages to heal due to time differences. The world of Elemental seems sluggish to them, like they're caught in a fog. Their bodies act the same when healing.

But the demon would be powerful enough to give any but the most prepared adventurer trouble - Partial spell immunity, full immunity to ranged weapons and siege (Due to higher reflexes allowing them to dodge, and preventing things like cheap mass ranged tactics, because demons are evil and don't like that stuff). Subordinates would be your standard demon types, but more powerful, maybe some elementals too for kicks.

If the player fails, the Dread Gate is reopened using the life force of the attackers, allowing a new and powerful mini-faction to spawn and begin building a city on that spot. If the player succeeds, more elementium, weapons, money, or even a spell to summon a First Rank demon for their own battles (In-battle only and only for single battles, not something they could station in a city or outside of Tactical).

Lastly, if an NPC controlled adventure faction discovers the citadel first, and happens into it, they trigger the launch of the mini faction due to their self-destructive curiosity.

-----

That's all I could fit for 5000 characters. <3

 

It's a very cool quest that will be in the final five.  Be sure to check out what other quests made it and submit your votes at: https://www.elementalgame.com/contest

Reply #40 Top

I'm so sad!  I wanted to win! I can't believe I gave Kael and Toby all those handjobs for nothing!  But, these are better than mine.   I put my vote in.

Reply #41 Top

I think I'm going to lose since my submission is essentially unreadable in that popup. Ugh :S

Reply #42 Top

Quoting TheProgress, reply 41
I think I'm going to lose since my submission is essentially unreadable in that popup. Ugh
End of TheProgress's quote

Should be better now.

Reply #43 Top

i like the demon lord quest since it spawns a faction if you fail it. not game breaking but adds a twist mid game. reminds me of hyborian from ffh2 spawning mid game and wreaking hell on the map. i really hope it adds some hell terrain like in ffh2 that was so badass as the hellground would spread.

Reply #44 Top

Yay! I'm very happy my quest made it to the top five! Once writing it I got hooked about developing the tiny parts. For me it's one of the major things I like about quests. Imbedded in lore and developing into further steps or tasks - to have a lasting appeal on the game you're playing or the story you're writing with your channeler. It's best described by "long term goal" Derek mentioned it already.

These quests are all excellent additions. I hope all of them will be adopted for Elemental! 

However my favorites are Dark Rising and Rod of Mages...


I like the concept of a cursed hero.  If it was me I would probably move this to a champion instead of a group of knights

That's in fact a really good idea. To be honest I was fiddling about the part with the knights and found it a little dull. ;)  

Reply #45 Top

I think I'm going to lose since my submission is essentially unreadable in that popup. Ugh
End of quote

you got my vote :D

Reply #46 Top

Quoting Pantasd, reply 45

I think I'm going to lose since my submission is essentially unreadable in that popup. Ugh
you got my vote
End of Pantasd's quote

Much appreciated :thumbsup:

 

Quoting Derek, reply 42

Should be better now.
End of Derek's quote

Thanks :beer:

Reply #47 Top

Quoting seanw3, reply 1
You have chosen wisely. I vote for sun rod of course. Love me some D&D style action.
End of seanw3's quote

 

Anything D&D is always a plus in my book

Reply #48 Top

Quoting <span>Alstein</span>, reply 4
Some related ideas that I think would help this idea out as a general concept:

 

a) Adventurers.  We flat out need more of them.  Adventure needs Adventurers.  One thing I'd like to see is adventurers spawned from the towns themselves.  Borrowing from FFH, why not have Adventurer's Guilds, which would have adventurer points which spawn adventurers as random NPCs in the town's influence (you could recruit them directly, or....)   I really think this needs to be core to FE as an addition, and you really could use a "design-an-adventurer" contest.  I'd say maybe add 100-200 adventurers to the game (seriously that many, and by adventurers I mean adventurers, not masters)- so that not every adventurer appears in every game.

 

b ) NPC adventurers should adventure/fight monsters/explore lairs/group more aggressively.  This should have a chance of causing good or bad effects for the player.  I think dungeons should be generated, that produce random results when NPCs (or your own adventurers) explore them (though this should be abstracted rather then turn into a mini-game)

 

c) Right now, one of the easymode strategies in the game is to take heros, give them uber-armor, then stack up their strength.  I'd like to see this strategy work differently.  Maybe make it where adventurting/questing is how you pull this strategy off, via magic weapons and other unusual items.  You'd need a large, and random assortment of magical equipment to make this work.  

(this would also require rebalancing mundane stuff, but that's already needed)

 

d) I'd love to see a "man of the hour event" that could promote a normal troop into a lvl 1 adventurer from a battle. 

 

e) Quests should offer unique stuff that is hard to get through normal gameplay (though normal gameplay should have a small chance of getting some of this stuff- at least via Magical or Adventure tech- bringing rare techs back would help tremendously with this)

 

Overall: a general theme I'd like to see in FE is maybe more of an emphasis on individuals/adventurers, over gobs of mundane troops with ever-increasing armor.

 

Oh btw Kryo, is there any way to remove/eliminate the smiley on ?
End of <span>Alstein</span>'s quote

 

A) I agree with and like a lot

B) I also like however I do not want them abstracted I do want the mini-game.  Sort of like how in the original Age of Wonders game you accully can explore the dungeons.  To me this was the best part of that game and was disappointed when they removed this in the following two AOW games.

C) Agreed

D) Oh yes now this would be great. Also perhaps put in quest or magic items that will also do this.

E) I agree. Currently quest are pretty boring and repetitive in the game (Do not read this to say take them out, Quest are a must in this game) and they need more variety. I can't tell you how many times in one game that I run agross guys that want me to gather potions around the map.

Reply #49 Top

It would be interesting if failing or succeeding in a quest could make another quest available much later. I love the Demon portal thing, but I also like the story behind it and can't help thinking: "wouldn't this be cool if, whether you close the portal or not, things escalated?". What if the Lord of Demons started meddling with the affairs of the plane of Elemental in a later quest? This could almost turn the game, temporarily, into a "let's put our differences aside and mount a Mount-Hyjal-like last stand".

Reply #50 Top
Quoting Werewindlefr, reply 49

Mount-Hyjal

End of Werewindlefr's quote

Had to google that reference.  You kids nowadays and your MMO games!