Starcraft is a real time strategy game, and any AI has a big advantage in real time compared to turn based games because it can simultaneously command a vast number of objects. As a result you will never see AI's in turn based games ever being as effective. Elite Starcraft players are actually judged by how many 'clicks' they perform per second, this is precisely what it is all about, how quickly you can command your forces. None of this happens in turn based games.

I'm not minimizing anything, naturally with elite players i just assume they all know what their doing, so i did not think there any reason to add that point in my previous post.

Edit: I am not a big fan of RTS although i do make exceptions for a couple of games - Rise of Nations, Age of empires and Total Anihilation.

Interestingly, i cannot play Starcraft or Warcraft3 - Even on the easiest of levels, i have such a hard struggle that it is just not an enjoyable game at all!

Total Anihilation on the other hand, i can set it on hard, all metal map against 10 allied AI opponent and still win without even breaking a sweat! Rise Of Nations is about as hard as an RTS gets before it is no longer fun for me.

Come to think of it, it is probably because i am a bit of a control freak, that is why i am so at home in turn based games. I am well familiar with Warcraft3, since i played it allot when i first got it..... but part of the nature of Warcraft3 is that you get disruptions allot, and plans disturbed and disorganized, you have to think on your feet and respond and reorganize quickly - this is where i am weak.

If you read the article, you'll see they did quite a bit more than pre-programmed reactions to actions. They used that kind of thing as a starting point, and found it wasn't nearly good enough.

@Mystik - This was just the thing I wondered about after reading the article. AI does have an advantage in Starcraft from micro that it wouldn't get in a turn-based game. But some of the stuff they did looked like it could apply to turn-based games.

try out preatorians... this is one simple rts with no resource micromanagement other than creating units and fighting with strategic elements. great game check it out

The best AI I have ever seen is in Panther games "Battles from the Bulge"

I have no idea how it gets as good as this - but it is a pausible real time game.

However I do not agree that RTS's always have the AI advantage. The principles of PDCA work exactly the same whatever the quantum of effect is. Be it one turn or one clock cycle.

What IS different is that the AI in TBS needs to plan a 1-10 move co-ordinate AI strategy. whereas an RTS plans 1-10 clock cycle (or cycles per object) strategy. It may seem more reaactive in RTS - but that's like saying grand strategy is easier than battlefield tactics.

Sometimes it is - sometimes it isn't, there is no underlying reason why it should be.

Again though - all that said. Starcraft is excellent - but not a patch on the responsive command structures of Panther games last two offerings.

What does change is the players ability to micro control in real time once the numbers of units and action/counter action reaches a certain level (psychologists will tell you that juggling more than 6 actions or requirements in real time is hard) The perception is that RTS is thrashing you becasue it introduces more "fronts" to fight on that you can actually handle metally in real time.

In a turn based game, you can handle as many fronts as you like. I play SSG games (TB strats) where you have 20 or 30 micro battles occuring - but hey - you have as long as you like to process them - so it's no hassle. If this same AI was hammering me in real time - I would be shafted left-right and center.

It's great to have your strategic reactions tested to the limit. I always found Warcraft 3 very very easy and TA a real pain. So I guess we are all different.

Scritty

You should definitely get Rise of Nations, it is truly a spectacular game! Don't get fooled by the newer Rise of Legends, you don't want that one.... sure it is an ok game but Rise of Nations is legendary!!

Wow, that is hard to imagine? I mean in TA all you have to do at the start is immediately expand out and claim metal deposits, and guess what? There are no annoying creatures guarding anything! Then in TA you can build some forward defenses and the AI will senselessly attack them simply because they are the closest target and ignore weak points that are further away. If only the annoying scatter brained forces in Warcraft3 were so single minded! And even if you do build defenses in Warcraft3, they do not hold because of those blasted catapults!! There are no effective long ranged ground units in TA that can outrage a basic first level fixed cannon turret. Even if your defensive position in TA is damaged, repair units are capable of repairing stuff without any input from the player - i would love to see that ability in Warcraft3 as well!

Edit: Bingo! After making the above post, I just realized the key reason why i like to play Total Annihilation and not Starcraft or Warcraft3!!! One word..... Automation!!!!!! Starcraft and Warcraft 3 are designed not to be automation friendly, whereas Total Annihilation is! Well, at least the aircraft are, since in practice, the poor path finding can jam up automation in ground units.

I find AI work to be oddly fascinating.  I very much enjoyed reading the article.

While Elemental is a turn based game, as opposed to real time, I have to point out that a lot of the concepts still apply.

Probing the enemy for weak points, and exploiting them still applies to Elemental.  The only difference is you do that evaluation per turn, not per second.

As does capitalizing on resources, or taking them away from the enemy.

As does maximizing your builds to do the greatest damage to the enemy.

The coding will be different, but the concepts are the same. 

I'm sure that Brad found the Berkeley team's solutions to the problems fascinating if nothing else.  Who knows, there might be a future Stardock employee on the Berkeley team...

It is not often i would see such insulting arrogance, even from elite players whom usually hold their cards very close to their chest. Typically most elite players have respect for other people whom they know nothing about and usually people with big boasting mouths are the losers anyway.

You don't have to embarrass yourself with such foolish remarks when you do not have any idea who i am!.... if you had payed attention you will see that i also love to play Rise of Nations and if you don't know that game then that is more evidence you do not have enough information to comment as you have. If you do know Rise of Nations then you will know that proves your assumptions to be incorrect.

If it is anything like Age of Empires I do not care. Age of Empires was a stupid and boring game. I know what I am talking about.

I have played in Multiplayer against other players with the intention to win:  C&C1, Warcraft 1&2&3, Red Alert 1&2, C&C: Generals&ZeroHour, TA, Starcraft 1 and 2, Dawn of War and many less known RTS games (yes even Age of Empires1&2 although that game was too stupid to play it a lot).

 I stand by my estimate that I would destroy you in 1v1 because I do not turtle like you or play like you.

Your kidding rite? Sorry but discussion on defeating AI could not possibly be more far removed from being in any way similar or relevant or reason for boasting about defeating people you do not know personally.

Exactly +1 quoted for truth and quality of report. BTW SC2 sucks.

It is nowhere near like playing speed chess. Speed chess is turn based and requires  much tactics and strategy. Clickfest RTS games are nothing but romper room TEMPLATES that are played over and over and over again in tournament play and outside. Once a specific template has been mastered and posted on the internet everyone is using it and then it just boils down to who is the quikest jerkoff.