More accurately, she was forbidden not to wear men's clothing. At some point, someone stole her clothing, leaving only her men's clothing to wear. So either she runs around naked or she used what she had. Either way, she'd end up executed.

That's part of what Jon is here to do. It's not really a matter of if, more like when. Though it'd be silly to assume that modders will dent their budget since their budget is their budget - if they're not using it for one thing, they're certainly going to use it for something else.

Hey what about invisible armor?? and invisible clothes? with visible sexy underwear and bear skin?, you know, just like at American international airports!!!!!

Sagittary: I have noticed that you have a tendency to misunderstand/represent what I say.

Firstly, if you go back to my very first post, you will see that I did, in fact, base my argument firmly on the precedent of the RPG genre (rather than reality). Go back and take a look.

Next, it was others who criticized my RPG argument by saying that Elemental is a strategy game rather than an RPG. A fair point, which I refuted by referring to attention to detail. At least some of us think the game would be better with these aesthetic changes, and that is all the point we are trying to make.

If you look back, you will also see that I NEVER referred to a "chain-mail bikini", as you suggest I was attempting to "defend". That is OBVIOUSLY ridiculous, and that is in fact why the person who did bring it up did so.

Lastly, you mistake my comment about modders and the SD budget. My comment is simply stating that modders having access to modeling tools (and using them to make armors, etc) will eliminate the need for SD to spend as much $$$ on that as they otherwise would. It is not to say that doing so will magically alter their budget in any way, shape, or form. In fact, it is my expectation that they would put that money into something else for the game, not just reduce what they spend on it.

First of all I'd like to say that I totally agree and understand everything that Pyruvate12 is saying. While I made a few comments a few months ago (and others did as well) that stardock should concentrate on fixing the game at the time, I think it's not too much to ask for some effort on this front now. Not saying they should neglect any other more important features for the game, but at least a mention that they're working towards this eventually would be nice. Actually, I wouldn't mind it if one of the two upcoming expansions (or whatever they are) has some female-looking armor (even if they're not nice looking, I'd appreciate the effort!) And before the "it's not realistic" (oh nos!) people continue, try reading this:

http://blog.shrub.com/archives/jfpbookworm/2006-06-28_319

And while we're on the subject, this is a pretty good page to read, too:

http://designblog.theirisnetwork.org/2010/08/28/stardocks-elemental-sexism/

While I'm sure all ya guys out there are gonna take one look at those pages then run away screaming "FEMINIST RANT!! AHHHHH!" Do try and read some of it.

As far as chainmail bikinis go, I actually wouldn't mind having them right now...Why, you say? Because at least I could tell my women are women!

So, I would rather: have rediculous looking women in rediculous looking chainmail bikinis

Rather than: have manish looking women, which makes having women at all pointless

Vanilla fem-armors in Morrowind and Oblivion, anyone? I got mods for both of them the first day I bought those games.

Rant ended.

I read most of those links.

Honestly it left me kind of going, "Uh, okay." Certainly more thinking about how the world works and questioning assumptions is a good thing. I suppose that article was aimed at the whole "but that's how it historicaly is" line of thought in this thread... but aside from that, it's a break from the blatent objectification of women that happens in most other games aimed at a male audience. Honestly, I suspect I (and perhaps the others too) made the historical points unciontiously to back up what I felt was a respectful egalitarian thing to do. So what if you don't see that they're women? You designed the unit, you pushed the build button, and as a consequence you are aware that there are women in your army.

So sure it doesn't have to match with history. But at the same time, the way both male and female units look so alike when they're suited up just symbolicaly shows how similar both genders are, even given all the physical/psychological differences.

Really I am getting tired of fights over gender. Honestly I think the fights over gender cause as much of a devide between men and women as traditional patriarchal thinking does. It's essentialy the same mechanism as race: As long as we are aware of the differences as dividing us, they will still. The difference is you can't really get rid of gender differences.

The differences mean that men and women will never be equal in potential capability, because our brains and bodies are just wired differently. There has been research to back this up (Not to say that women can't do well at traditional male jobs/hobbies or vice versa, but our gender inclines us towards certain ways of acting and thinking). The best thing that I can think of for people to do is just try and get comfortable with who and what they are.

Back to the game: I have heard that women like to be able to recognised as women and not just short men. That makes sense. But at the same time, I think from an ethical point of view, there are times to do that and times not to. I don't really think it is healthy to for a guy to, for instance, dress up all his female soldiers in chainmale bikinies, or perhaps even full curve-hugging platemale (I suspect it could be different for a women). Really I am starting to think the only time it definatly good for men and women to recognise eachother as the opposite gender is in personal relationships, whether romantic, family, or friendships.

Anyways. Some thoughts.

Thank you very much for the rant, and especially the 2nd link!!! I am a "pro-feminist", and the 2nd article said very well everything that I have been wanting to communicate about Elemental.