The consept of minor nations/city states

from Elemental Forums

Meeting "smaller" races has been in 4x games for a long time. Even in MOO II you could find a planet with some special farmer people. Its in CIV V and in Elemental as well. I have a problem with the way this is evolving in modern games. These smaller nations are just there to be played with. I want a living world were everything can happen. When we look at world history there has been city states, but that was not because of faith/god/allah or someone decieded that they were city states. They just didnt evolve to empires. 

In 4x games the gamemakers deciede who will never develop beforehand, and that is wrong in my opinion. 

 

1. I like the concept that there are minor nations different from the normal ones that you can choose to play with

2. I want to give them freedom to be much more active. In CIV V they give you food, culture or whatever. Its totally boring. In Elemental they can give access to some special units, which is fine but rather one dimensional.

 

What I would like is for the Frog to make a special Minor Nation AI that would make them come alive. Since they have access to special and strong units, they would win the game every time if given the same options as normal AI nations. Give them soul.

 

Some could align to the Empire and some could prefere Kingdom.

Some could sell you units if you do a quest for them or if you bribe them

Some could deciede to expand if there is much free land

Some could attack and be very hostile if you settle too close

Minor nations could attack eachother if their borders are closing

Their pioneers could be made rather expensive to make them slow starters (compensating for the strong units)

 

A MINOR NATION SHOULD IN EXTREME CASES BE ABLE TO WIN THE GAME!!! That would be soooo cool.

 

Disclaimer: I play Single Player only, and I want a great experience. Not balance. 

elemental
3,765 views 8 replies
Reply #1 from Elemental Forums Top

Hmm totally different experience from me, i was thinking that the minor nations should be invulnerable and serve as a special shop for unusual things who will sell to anybody.

 

Here's a question though, if you set the game up to play with 10 ai players will there be a minor faction ? I'm not even sure how many minors there are.

do they retain there special shop status if they are taken over by someone else ?

maybe we can make a list of what is available and add this to the faq.

 

 

Reply #2 from Elemental Forums Top

@Glowing_ember

Sounds more like you would like travelling traders who offer special things for sale. That would be cool too :o)

Or an ogre camp that can be visited and recruited from. Maybe it would produce 1 orge per year (4 seasons), and first come first served when it comes to buying it. Could lead to some interesting "discussions" between recruiting Sovereigns :o)

 

Earlier I know that the influence border did not expand after you captured a minor nation. Now I dont know, cause I have not seen a single minor nation in my last 10 games.

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Reply #3 from Elemental Forums Top

@joasoze

So, essentially, you want more faction...(non playable) 

Reply #4 from Elemental Forums Top

yes, but they would be very different and dynamic. Thereby making the world more alive and unpredictable. 

In CIV V you see people discussing the Minor nation giving food and that is all it is. People always know what they get when they meet this minor nation. Its boring. 

 

 

Reply #5 from Stardock Forums Top

I am also curious about this subject.

I think it ties in to the issue of abandoned/rogue champions.

Reply #6 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Glowing_Ember, reply 1
Hmm totally different experience from me, i was thinking that the minor nations should be invulnerable and serve as a special shop for unusual things who will sell to anybody.

 

Here's a question though, if you set the game up to play with 10 ai players will there be a minor faction ? I'm not even sure how many minors there are.

do they retain there special shop status if they are taken over by someone else ?

maybe we can make a list of what is available and add this to the faq.

 

 
End of Glowing_Ember's quote

 

Yes you can have 10 AI players and still have minor factions. About turn 30 I always see that the Lore Keepers have been wiped out (Still have never seen them but I know they exist...somewhere).

Reply #7 from Stardock Forums Top

 I've allways played with 10 AI factions on ridiculous and allways only see 1 of 2 different minor nations. The Orekeepers & that Ramis joker. Have not once seen more than 1 minor in any of my games so far in 1.1. I generally allways ZERG outwards with those crap hired heros searching for them since those minor factions allways sell KICKASS weapons & armor; which lets me research other branches instead of weapons asap.

 As for them standing around doing nothing.. seems rather pointless. They should be busting there ass building defenses and troops at the very least to defend themselves. What person/community that survived the last 100 years since the cataclysism would just wait around like that. Makes me think they may be mind controlled to be some monsters buffet.

:frogboy:  Is that a GiantDemonicGodKillingFrog behind that hill? oh noes.... lol   ~RUN~ x_x

Reply #8 from Elemental Forums Top

I've mentioned this before, long long ago. Essentially, my thoughts boiled down to: Give city-states objectives. They may or may not want to 'win' the game, but they may want to 'win' in other ways (that don't necessarily equal end game).

 

Some objectives may be shared (they want to gain a second city but since they can't build pioneers directly...), others may be unique (the orekeepers may want to have at least 10,000 metal in stock), others may be randomized (be aligned with the winning team at end game, be aligned with X for 100 turns). This would not only give them some level of personality on the player side, but it would also give the developers something to build around on the development side. Instead of Brad writing up generic code, he can do his special cool stuff and make them behave in interesting ways.