Fantasy game?

We need to keep in mind that Elemental ties in with the book Destiny's Embers.  That has it's own unique world setting where Elves, etc. and some of the other 'conventions' we expect in fantasy aren't adopted.

That being said, being able to play Darklings might be a nice change of pace...

For those looking for a more 'traditional' fantasy approach, I'd suggest keeping an eye on the Mods forum.  There is an Elves mod, plus a plethora of others, should you wish to try something other than the 'vanilla' Elemental world setting.

On the author's front, while this doesn't relate to Destiny's Embers, I always been a fan of Michael Stackpole's work.  The DragonCrown War Cycle trilogy is a good read, as is is Age Of Discovery trilogy.

His contributions to other arenas, such as Battletech (A fave fan quote: "I give you the Capellan Confederation"), and the Star Wars: X-Wing series, are also notable.

Looks like he has a new series coming (Crown Colonies) but that involves 1800's era Colonials versus Zombies, i.e. not quite High Fantasy.

Wow, I didn't realize that Brad WROTE Destiny's Embers (for some reason I thought someone was commissioned for this).  Apparently Bradley wears more hats than some of us give him credit for...

That's no excuse for all the "different" races just being humans in rubber suits.  There's nowhere's near enough differentiation between them, and too little backstory in the game.  I'm enjoying the game anyway, but OP is right when it comes to any sort of fantasy-like feeling.

That depends on your definition of "Fantasy".  And if you look at the world today, people would say there are so many different kinds of people...but take off the clothing(ok figuratively here) and we are all the same.  Its the same in Elemental.  Many books our there are labled "Fantasy" yet have no races thats stand out like Elves, Dwarves, and such.  To me, Fantasy is a break from our modern world of science and what not and breaks into the magical.  But thats "Fantasy" for me.  Your's may well be different and thats ok too.  They dont need to drop in tons of "Fantasy" races, when Modders are already doing that.  Go check out the mods section and Heavensfall has an expanded faction mod that is stellar, not to mention the other mods that are adding nice fluff to the game.  Let them worry about getting the bugs, spells, and such pefect and the modders can happily do the rest!!  That way, more gets added without them having to stop the really important stuff, at least IMHO.

Come on, I don't wanted to start a philosophic discussion about the meaning of fantasy. But a race called "ironeers" that looks like dwarfs, just a bit greater grown, doesn't need more words to say. Everybody knows the derivation of that fraction - that's really poor for me!

After playing that game more than 5 times, I am still unable to notice a difference between that fractions. It is not, that I am not comfortable with a new fantasy-concept - but this one is deadly boring. And there is no excuse in saying, this game is based on book "xyz".

Just imagine that mythology is based upon centuries of human history! Creating a new and serious fantasy world from scratch, isn't something you can do while developing a new computer game. 

I am really disappointed about WoM, which had this failed start, a useless magic-system untill version 1.1 and a missing detailled fantasy-concept. But after knowing that a book was written and a game was created at the same time, that results are explainable for me.

Consider Ironeers more of a nationality then a race.

The Empires are more races.

That said, SD didn't really get rid of the humans in rubber suits approach in GC2 until Twilight.

Yeah. While I do agree on some level with the OP, this is very much in line with what Brad wrote in his novel. All of the races in Elemental derive from Men. Consider the two factions East and West. And consider each of the races within each faction a nationality/ethnicity.

Brad saw it more as a geo-political environment than your standard fantasy world where it's all the different, totally distinct races warring against the other's alienness.

All that said, I don't think it translated very well into game, and I make no comment on the actual book because I've not read it and probably never will. It still comes down to "GET THE NON-US PEOPLE!", but I get what they're going for, and the longer I play my custom factions (because I have no interest in the ones the game offers) the more I get into the vibe of "Yeah, this is MY KINGDOM, and these are MY PEOPLE."

Still, I think most have a point. The game assumes you've read the book to really understand what's going on in the Elemental Lore beyond the vignettes you get in the game. And I think that was.....really premature on Brad's part.

  Hmmn; sounds fine to me since I'm a huge fan of many different brands of "Fantasy" that have been released over the last 4 decades in literature, entertainment & gaming. I for one think that I shouldn't have had to buy the book to understand the world that EWoM is set in. As a critique he's no George R.R. Martin, but he's good; I enjoyed the read after a friend recommened it to me.

Quote from Random House's webpage:

• "Xander journeys into the heart of the world, where long-hidden secrets will be revealed that could shatter the delicate balance established by the great Cataclysm a thousand years earlier."

 But... Of all the interesting things that the main characters did in the book; can we do any of them in EWoM? Well, to answer myself... there was combat & magic; neither of which function anywhere close to the books & is not nearly as interesting. Perhaps if more elements from the book had been included in the game instead of being withheld from it... it wouldn't be so flat. It's one of the main reasons that EWoM has so little depth. Players need immersion into a fantasy realm that is believable... or be entertained to the point of blindness to accept the unbelievable to still be motivated to continue playing.

 And while the community has alot of people who are creative & willing & able to spend 100's of hours of there own time designing "cool" & "fun" mods for the game... that does nothing for everyone who expected EWoM to be more entertaining by 1.1 of the "vanilla" version.

 Peace... happy holidays & bah humbug if you hate this time of year..

EDIT: I was reminded why I originally purchased EWoM as I was reading threads. One line in add in the thread ElemetalFfordummies got my attention. That line was 'Warfare set in a RPG world'. (or something very close to that... can;t rememebr 100% & to tired to go back and check) This is Not a RPG world, it may have a RPG feel to it... but thats it. RolePlayingGames by definaition indicate a world in which a player has multiple choices and while we do have many choices while we play... none of them are RolePlay.

Eh, you are wrong, it is an RPG world, it just needs to be fleshed out a bit.

Problem is that it is about as balanced as a jrpg, full of unbalanced spells, most of which never get used and huge difference between lvl 3 and lvl 5 guy, and equipment stats. Works fine in an rpg, not so great in a multiplayer (theoretically) rpg strategy game.

A lot of this stuff is being addressed I'm sure, or will be addressed post-holidays so I think we just have to be patient and maybe next month we will see more useful spells, rebalanced spells/equipment, additional stuff that will increase strategy potential and make turns more interesting. Fixed diplomacy/adventuring tech lines, smarter AI, and a more interesting lvl up process involving unlock-able traits/skills for Sov/champions. I'm not trying to be a Stardock apologist but as they say...things will get better...

Well, it needs some balancing, but honestly, balancing wont be difficult now that they have the basics in place. I was thinking more about them adding more quests and rewards and more interactions with NPCs

 Like the other dude who disagreed with me.. I must disagree with you.. it is not a "RPG Strategy Game" atm, regardless how much I wish it was; it is however a "Fantasy Strategy Game".

 StarDock has a very strong reputation on making quality games & improving on what they make. As such I have no doubt that it will get much better in the future since they have made the game dramatically more stable for nearly everyone.  I'm just tired of many aspects of this game being mislabeled by fans while defending SD from honest critism. Lol...

I agree with the OP. The gameplay is now heading in the right direction and I am enjoying playing the game now but the races are really weak. Even before 1.0 was released this was highlighted.

The lore around the game has also been discussed as being uber-shallow which has brought about two massive issues:

1. As highlighted in this post, the races are one-dimensional and boring.

and

2. The game-world is dead.

I'm just hoping at some point the engine and the code is ported across into a game where the world is rich and races different.

How is it an RPG and not a Fantasy game and vice-versa? Do these labels not overlap?

The races of Men and ect... are fine its how the game shows you them is whats lacking (This goes for most games).

If each race had its own group of equipment to pick from outside of the already generic we would appreciate the races far more.

Put an Ironeer in heavy decorative mythril armor and make him either shorter(Dwarf)or taller(Nord)and you have yourself a unique race. Unfortuntely to do this with every race takes a ton of time... money.... and time... and money.... This is where you guys might have to use your imagination until forever or a hopeful expansion/UBERpatch.

I personally imagine each race close to a culture or fantasy iv encountered.

Example:

Altarians = Heroic; Spartans or Romans

Ironeers = Desert Messiah; Dwarves or Nords (Or both, Wide and Tall)

Amarians = Pure; Elves or Highmen (Seraphs Decendents)

Mancers = Mancers are kind of odd I think they're kind of a cross between Robin Hood and Britains Royalty.

Tarthans = If sparticus lived he would have become a Tarthan (Gladiator/Amazons)

Krax are like Mage Warriors, with a hint of Ninja

and

The Trogs, Urxen, Quendar, Wraiths have a decent amount of cosmetic work. 

Anyway it would be amazing if the art division wanted to add in some more Race Cosmetics 

What we have now is the stage galciv II was at prior to the expansions.

All the races feel the same, there's not really any defining feature to them other than basic aesthetics of their base models and colour schemes.

Each race needs focuses and each race needs something that makes it unique. Different starting techs, different tech trees and different equipment would be a good start.

As for units it's all very limited by the unit designer to be honest, there's a definitive 'best' gear set at any time and no matter who you play as it will always be the same homogeneous boring guy with a stick/hammer.

People and their flashy colours...

And for me, "fantasy" is anything that it's not real.

There is hope for more fleshing out the factions and slowy get more faction related stuff as time goes by. I suppose that it will happen during expansion packs but the hope is there.

EWoM sorely needs stronger theme.  It has been brought up before in other threads like the magic spell rants or the sleepy music discussions.

art cost money... so i'd rather they just have different skins but do something else in the game that make the so called races different. as i've been saying. atm races and factions are pretty much the same thing, unless you create a custom faction.

But faction is all that separate them with races pretty much equal unless you count equipment. which is a bit silly.