DerekPaxton DerekPaxton

Lockdown

Lockdown

 

  Lockdown is the least fun part of the process for me.  There are some bugs I mention to the programming team and they fix before I get back to my desk.  And there are others that take a lot more work.  There are issues that a crash dump will tell you where the failure is, and there are some where the dump only shows you what happened afterwards.  Like finding a body in a room with a knife in its back.  You can see that the body is dead, see that the knife killed it (probably) but there is no evidence of who was using the knife.

  So we look for patterns.  Who else was in the room when the murder happened?  Professor Multi-thread AI was going through, he says to innocently value the assets on the armoire, but he's always doing his own thing.  Ms Garbage Collection always finds the body, and nobody ever trusts the maid.  Colonel Tactical Combat ... well lets just say that he own's a lot of knives.

  The luxury we have as programmers is we can bring the victim back to life and send that back into the room.

  "Okay Mr Game, go back in."

  "But....  what if I die again?"

  "That's what we are hoping for."  *push*

  Sometimes the weapon changes.  We locked up all the knives and now it's death by plunger.

  Sometimes we try to lock our suspects out of the room and they keep busting in.  In the worst cases we think we lock everyone out and in the morning Mr Game is still dead.

  Lockdown will drive you a little crazy.  We read and reread code.  We run tests, go through debug and scour data for clues.  Our goal is unattainable (the game without bugs), But we want to get as close as possible.  And we don't check in significant changes.

  Even the minor changes get reviewed.  I feel bad telling experienced, talented developers that they can't checkin a change unless they have someone else go through it and validate it (well not really bad, but sorta bad).  But the biggest risk at this stage is that we will introduce new issues.  That it will get into a public version and skip all the time we spent validating that the game was stable.  It's tough to keep your hands out of the cookie jar.

  I do have to say that our QA guys do a great job.  They don't often get as much time as we would like to test our builds.  But if we do give them notice and time to provide feedback on the game they do a great job.  And we are very appreciative of the community for posting reports and crashes (some post every day with each new build).  It's great feedback.  You make our lives easier and improving the experience for everyone else who will play.

 

  But it is fun having a chance to just play the game in a consistent form.  Tonight we all sat around and laughed at Codecritter as he accepted a quest to escort a noblemans daughter, then accidently lead her into a battle to free a village on another quest and killed off her an his sovereign.  Gaming is the most fun when the rest of the office is taunting you for your inablility to play (someday get Toby to ask you how he spent months trapped in a basement of another game).

  One of the things I enjoy most about the recent builds, and unfortunately doesn't get much attention in the change logs is the amazing work that the team is creating.  The following spell painting in particular are my favorites:

Greater Grip of Winter

Deathward

  I think everyone will enjoy 1.1.  We are certainly excited to share it with you.

99,092 views 52 replies
Reply #26 Top

Quoting Cruxador, reply 18

Quoting FatNonFree, reply 14There's boats in this game?There's one tech for them in the Civic tree (for kingdom, I don't know where for empire).
They're just transports; this is very much not a naval game.
End of Cruxador's quote

 

The issue here is the AI, it's not able to play on a map of islands because it doesn't use boats, something CIV games have been doing from the begining.

 

Reply #27 Top

I'm curious about the term "lockdown" -- I've always heard "freeze" or "feature freeze".  Is this a gaming industry term?

Reply #28 Top

Quoting lambdaman, reply 27
I'm curious about the term "lockdown" -- I've always heard "freeze" or "feature freeze".  Is this a gaming industry term?
End of lambdaman's quote

I'm guessing it's different language in different places and with different people.  I worked closely with a programmer who called it "feature lock."  Same concept, different words.

Reply #29 Top

Quoting pad152, reply 26


The issue here is the AI, it's not able to play on a map of islands because it doesn't use boats, something CIV games have been doing from the begining.

 
End of pad152's quote

Selective memory here.. Many of the vanilla release versions of various Civ releases had major issues with AI using boats.

Civ IV for instance had issues til about the time of release of BTS.. and the vanilla patch that accompanied it.

 

Not that this should be ignored. I would like to see the eventual usage of boats for basic transport for the AI.. but this is the reason all the default maps are pangea i imagine.

Reply #30 Top

Fantastic post and an extremely illuminating analogy!

 

Keep up the great work!

 

We're already seeing the dividends from your hire!!!

Reply #31 Top

Quoting Fistalis, reply 29

Quoting pad152, reply 26

The issue here is the AI, it's not able to play on a map of islands because it doesn't use boats, something CIV games have been doing from the begining.

 
Selective memory here.. Many of the vanilla release versions of various Civ releases had major issues with AI using boats.

Civ IV for instance had issues til about the time of release of BTS.. and the vanilla patch that accompanied it.

 

Not that this should be ignored. I would like to see the eventual usage of boats for basic transport for the AI.. but this is the reason all the default maps are pangea i imagine.
End of Fistalis's quote

Yeah I don't think I've played a single strategy game where the AI could play effectively on island maps.

Reply #32 Top

Quoting Fistalis, reply 29

Quoting pad152, reply 26

The issue here is the AI, it's not able to play on a map of islands because it doesn't use boats, something CIV games have been doing from the begining.

 

Selective memory here.. Many of the vanilla release versions of various Civ releases had major issues with AI using boats.

Civ IV for instance had issues til about the time of release of BTS.. and the vanilla patch that accompanied it.

 

Not that this should be ignored. I would like to see the eventual usage of boats for basic transport for the AI.. but this is the reason all the default maps are pangea i imagine.
End of Fistalis's quote

 

Soren addressed this in various places actually. It's apparently very very difficult to get an AI to coordinate an amphibious assault (more or less, it can't handle the logistics and timing). He noted a case of city-fu where people could exploit the AI to run around in circles. This was one of the reasons they gave units the ability to go overseas without a dedicated boat; it helped make the AI better while also getting rid of the micromanagement for the player. 

Reply #33 Top

Quoting lambdaman, reply 27
I'm curious about the term "lockdown" -- I've always heard "freeze" or "feature freeze".  Is this a gaming industry term?
End of lambdaman's quote

 

Nah, I've heard code lock, lockdown, code freeze, etc. Considering how informal game development is, definitions and labels vary a lot.

Reply #34 Top

Just too say I've noticed and appriciated all the new speel art going into recent builds I've been meaning to post about that but got really busy.

Well done to the artists, the spells just feel nicer if they have their own art in the spell books.

I see there is another build already though I don't have time to play right now. Keep up the good work.

 

 

Reply #35 Top

Quoting sagittary, reply 32

. This was one of the reasons they gave units the ability to go overseas without a dedicated boat; it helped make the AI better while also getting rid of the micromanagement for the player. 
End of sagittary's quote

 

Speaking of the embark dynamic.. It would acceptable to me in a fantasy game like elemental.. but I find it horrid in a loosely reality based historical game like civ V. Simply because the logistics of a large scale amphibious invasion has historically been the Major determining factor of success or failure.

One of the many reasons i still play Sr2020 and civ IV more than civ V. Sr2020 more than the rest simply because logistics is hugely important in that game. Elemental I haven't touched in awhile simply because im waiting for 1.1

 

But enough of my thread jacking

Reply #36 Top

One would think if Stardock can design a game where space ships travel from planet to planet, they could make ships work, besides here are other ways to travel portals, underground( Age of wonder), etc. if the AI can't use one travel method, design another!

Reply #37 Top

Quoting Alstein, reply 21

The art is fantastic, reminds me a bit of Culdcept Saga or CCG's. 
End of Alstein's quote

 

Wow, Culdcept!

I was mad when they didn't make the sequel for PS2/3 because I loved the PS2 version :(

Hopefully, it'll get ported to PSP or DS.

 

And that art is beautiful - that's why I love hand-made graphics.

Reply #38 Top

Quoting marlowwe, reply 31
Yeah I don't think I've played a single strategy game where the AI could play effectively on island maps.
End of marlowwe's quote

Rise of Nations.  In that game moving units onto water turned them into boats automatically.  All naval AI issues solved.

Reply #39 Top

Quoting Derek, reply 38

Quoting marlowwe, reply 31Yeah I don't think I've played a single strategy game where the AI could play effectively on island maps.
Rise of Nations.  In that game moving units onto water turned them into boats automatically.  All naval AI issues solved.
End of Derek's quote

I love Rise of Nations nobody talks about it.

Reply #40 Top

Rise of Nations.  In that game moving units onto water turned them into boats automatically.  All naval AI issues solved.
End of quote

 

Hey old man, where's your old school reference to Warlords?

 

For the young uns, there were docks placed around the map at creation, functioning similarly to the later RON mechanic.

Reply #41 Top

Anyone who has ever done programming has some basic idea of how fun bug hunting, and squashing, can be.  Good luck, I wish you guys the best.  Looking forward to 1.1, but go ahead and take your time getting the kinks ironed out first.

Reply #42 Top

Quoting Kardiophylax, reply 41
Anyone who has ever done programming has some basic idea of how fun bug hunting, and squashing, can be.  Good luck, I wish you guys the best.  Looking forward to 1.1, but go ahead and take your time getting the kinks ironed out first.
End of Kardiophylax's quote

Holy ironclad ironies, Batman! The hunting and squashing (and regressing and closing) can be fun, but the Evil Deadline Monster can sometimes be much more un-fun.

I haven't worked closely with pro QA folks in recent years, but what they taught me 'back in the day' plus the logarithmic increase in PC complexity leaves me pretty sure that nobody gets to test as much as they'd like to do before the code hits the streets. No matter what the mix of art and science you aim for in your software, the hardest decisions are when to let go and call a build fit for distribution (beta or otherwise).

Reply #43 Top

I've been playing Elemental a lot of today, and I can tell that it's turning into quite a gem! I appreciate all the hard work the Stardock team is doing! Also, very nice artwork! I like the style of it.

 

:D

Reply #44 Top

Stardock, y'alls/y'all's/yall's (not...sure where to put the apostrophe! Thisis why y'all is not a word!) continued energy on this project is inspiring.  God bless y'all (or, to the more humanistic leaning, thank you a million).  I think I'll brush the dust off of one of my old projects and give it another go.

Here's to Stardock, long may she live!

Reply #45 Top

Quoting Derek, reply 38

Quoting marlowwe, reply 31Yeah I don't think I've played a single strategy game where the AI could play effectively on island maps.
Rise of Nations.  In that game moving units onto water turned them into boats automatically.  All naval AI issues solved.
End of Derek's quote

Ah yes I remember that too! What a clever solution that was.

Reply #46 Top

You guys might be interested to know why Derek's post was Clue inspired.  Here's an excerpt from our Instant Messaging that night where we randomly starting making jokes about Clue..  it's good for a laugh:

[12/9/2010 8:16:35 PM] Mathew Mason: so what's our build status?
[12/9/2010 8:16:55 PM] codecritter: cari's checking in, derek has a pending check in
[12/9/2010 8:17:02 PM] Mathew Mason: and that's all?
[12/9/2010 8:17:02 PM] Charles Lentz: me too
[12/9/2010 8:17:05 PM] codecritter: and charles
[12/9/2010 8:17:23 PM] Charles Lentz: oh and umm, professor plumb wanted to see you in the observatory tonight
[12/9/2010 8:17:27 PM] cari_elf: hahahaha
[12/9/2010 8:17:30 PM] Derek Paxton: :)
[12/9/2010 8:17:47 PM] codecritter: did he say to bring a candlestick?
[12/9/2010 8:18:07 PM] cari_elf: no, he needed a pipe
[12/9/2010 8:18:16 PM] Charles Lentz: i thought it was rope
[12/9/2010 8:18:26 PM] codecritter: if only we had a CLUE as to what he wanted
[12/9/2010 8:18:29 PM] Charles Lentz: might a been the library now that i think about it
[12/9/2010 8:18:30 PM] cari_elf: hahaha
[12/9/2010 8:18:31 PM] Charles Lentz: lol

 

Reply #47 Top

Thank you Mr Paxton.

It is posts like these that make me want to just ditch Steam altogether.  I have only 2 games in that account anyway...and they're not even all that great.  One such game needs work there too, but no where there have I ever read anything so inclusive and insightful like this.

Here, however, I am more than just a customer.

:')

Reply #48 Top

Quoting aeligos, reply 47
Thank you Mr Paxton.

It is posts like these that make me want to just ditch Steam altogether.  I have only 2 games in that account anyway...and they're not even all that great.  One such game needs work there too, but no where there have I ever read anything so inclusive and insightful like this.

Here, however, I am more than just a customer.

End of aeligos's quote

This. + I don't have to start up impulse and log in just to play elemental :D

 

Bah there I go with my offtopic thread jackin again :blush:

Reply #49 Top

Thank you for the updates. Games getting very good!

 

Ya good memories on Rise of Nations... and yes water maps were good too.

Reply #50 Top

Quoting Napean, reply 44
Stardock, y'alls/y'all's/yall's (not...sure where to put the apostrophe! Thisis why y'all is not a word!) continued energy on this project is inspiring.  God bless y'all (or, to the more humanistic leaning, thank you a million)...
End of Napean's quote

"You all" is functional English for millions of us 'native speakers.' Contractions are indeed a hassle, but I mostly put that down to a long term, low intensity war on apostrophes. There's also the fact that double apostrophes never made it into formal usage. Sometimes, I figure that class conflict and/or aesthetics were in play when the printed dictionary/grammar authorities got started back in the 19th. But I've seen enough computer games shun complexity to think that the rules folks back in the day thought that it was hard enough to expect readers to know that an apostrophe indicated either a contraction or a possessive.