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1.09o/p initial impressions/changes discussion- while we wait for the level 3 city crash issue to be resolved...

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1.09o/p initial impressions/changes discussion- while we wait for the level 3 city crash issue to be resolved...

from Elemental Forums

Hey y'all!

For those of us that are 'stuck' because of the level 3 city crash issue (which I'm sure will be addressed shortly), I'd like to share my experience with the early game stuff.

I generally play kingdom in my games.  Under the new beta build, 1.09o, I have noticed these things:

1) Dodge now works.  In a big honkin' font no less!  Now you know when a weapon is blocked, dodged, or how much damage you just caused.  Other than the HUGE font (it could be a little smaller...), I'm glad to see that combat is working 'as advertised' now.

2) Monsters are making their presence known, and are immediate threats to your cities.  No more waiting a few turns to build those defenders, it's now a priority.  As is some warfare tech (Peasants aren't going to cut it, unless there are a few of them).

3) Haven't been able to  test bows under the new build yet, as apparently they aren't a 'choosable' option to begin the game with anymore.  I did research the 'Crude Bows' tech, and was about to equip a hero with one once I had the cash to purchase it, and will report on functionality later.

4) Needing to build a hut immediately for your first city (so the population will grow past 5) seems silly... Essentially you can staff one improvement, then you are stuck until that hut gets built.  If the objective is to slow down the initial game, this accomplishes that nicely.

5) Population (as a resource) is NOW working as advertised (see #4, above).  No more building improvements you don't have the population for.

6) I faced 6 spiders and a bear in one of my combats, which had just attacked one of my newly built cities.  Fortunately, I had a guard unit which I dropped in the city to protect it until the city was able to build their own.  Said guard unit had a 6 attack and 7 defense (thanks to weapons research), and with some skillful use of terrain (so he wouldn't have more than 2-3 creatures attacking at once), he was able to repulse them.  Without the 7 armor, he'd have been toast.  Needing to repel such attacks almost immediately may be a good or bad thing, but I like the extra challenge (as long as ALL other kingdoms/empires are facing the same issues).

7) Sending a lone Sovereign out without an escort may be asking for trouble.  I used to look for combats, now I'm shying away from them until I am able to get an escort.   Until you have spells, decent armor, and/or a nice weapon, going solo may be hazardous to your Sovereign's health.  This is the first game where my Sovereign spent a fair amount of time at home recuperating from wounds.

8) I'm seeing less Materials rewards in the Goodie huts.  This may be luck of the draw, but I HAD to build several workshops in my first city to get things rolling to compensate.  My start game really slowed down this time, while I waited for the necessary materials to accumulate, so I could build defenders and improvements.

9) I didn't see any salted pork as rewards for successful battles, which forced my Sovereign and heroes to head home to heal several times.  I liked having the Salted Pork as a reward out in the wild, although perhaps it was being rewarded a too often under 1.09n.

10) I was able to design a unit with greaves and a helm at the start of the game, which I don't remember being able to do before.  So I had a choice of building a peasant in 3 turns, or a tougher unit with a staff and light armor in 4 turns (and a higher materials requirement).  The tougher unit was needed about immediately, due to the monsters being on the warpath, but two units in a city seemed to be able manage for the first few turns.

 

That's all I can think of for now.  I'll start another game and post an update in a few hours.

elemental
17,345 views 34 replies
Reply #26 from Elemental Forums Top

10) I was able to design a unit with greaves and a helm at the start of the game, which I don't remember being able to do before. So I had a choice of building a peasant in 3 turns, or a tougher unit with a staff and light armor in 4 turns (and a higher materials requirement). The tougher unit was needed about immediately, due to the monsters being on the warpath, but two units in a city seemed to be able manage for the first few turns.
End of quote

Each race now has a special starting technology this may be why.

7) Sending a lone Sovereign out without an escort may be asking for trouble. I used to look for combats, now I'm shying away from them until I am able to get an escort. Until you have spells, decent armor, and/or a nice weapon, going solo may be hazardous to your Sovereign's health. This is the first game where my Sovereign spent a fair amount of time at home recuperating from wounds.
End of quote

It's not too bad so long as you choose the war staff at character creation which has a base attack of 15 (which is silly for a weapon you can have from the start).

 

Reply #27 from Elemental Forums Top

I'm another Captiar player who can't build caravans.

But I'm loving the game now BTW. :)

Groupy 2 - Organize multiple applications into grouped tabs on your Windows desktop
Reply #28 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Das123, reply 27
I'm another Captiar player who can't build caravans.

But I'm loving the game now BTW.
End of Das123's quote

 

And another here. I thought it was just me, pheeww :)

 

 

Reply #29 from Elemental Forums Top

Update on my custom sov, Pariden faction game:

Now have 2 level 3 cities, each has an archery range and a command post.  Just starting to build 4 man light archer squads (crude bows, padded cuirass).  Successfully used same troop as solo units and they seemed to work as they should.

I encountered some weirdness with the teleport spell as well... The only spot I could get a green highlight on was the marble pit just outside a newly conquered level 2 city I was teleporting back to defend.  Earlier teleport had worked fine from neutral territory back into my original kingdom's ZOC, so i wonder if that has something to do with it. 

Played 3 hours this afternoon without a single crash or hang.  Did have 2 tactical battles that seemed to go unresponsive but was able to still click the auto-battle button on the GUI to successfully conclude them. 

Loot has included very rare salted pork and a single 2 hp bonus ring.  Would be nice to get bits of metal and/or materials once in a while.

Just starting level three quests.  No gold or metal mines found.  Have crystal mine, but can't trade for metal (no choice in diplo menu... more diplo research perhaps?)

Enjoying immensely, keep going!

 

Reply #30 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting kenata, reply 16
OK so here is a wild one for ya. In 1.09o, I was not able to build caravans as Capitar. Not at all. I had the tech even researched a few more for good measure, but sadly no caravans. Anyone having this issue?
End of kenata's quote

Same issue for me... no caravans in the Diplomacy tree.

Reply #31 from Elemental Forums Top

Another update before I crash.

I only researched my 'Notable Locations' up to level 2, due to needing a LOT of other techs and the fact that tech advancement seems much slower now.  That being said, the gildar rewards seemed reasonable, seeing that the 'gildar' multiplier structures aren't applying bonuses (Derek has posted this in the changelog).  My empire has been floating around -2 to 2 gildar per turn production, even with around 18 caravans doing their thing, so the goody huts have been keeping me in the game. 

I've ended up passing on a LOT of heroes because they want too much money (200+ gildar) this time around, due to the lean gildar situation.

I'm guessing that once I research level 3 notable locations, I'll begin to find those huge hordes of gildar.  As it is, I've found 150 gildar a few times in the level 2 huts.

I'm around Spring of 190 (whatever that means).  My total population is around 450 or so, and I've noticed that the smaller cities are growing very slowly now.  Before, each city would grow at around 2 people per turn, now it's more like 1 every other turn.  I even hit a point where my total population, over 10 or so cities, was only growing at about 5-6  per turn.  So my capital city is a LONG ways from levelling up at this point (it's around 153 citizens as I post this).  I haven't researched much by way of Prestige boosters (I just have the inn), dunno if that's part of the problem.  I'm ranked 57 in faction power, with the other four factions I've found being no higher than 17 by comparison.  I eliminated a fifth faction, and the other five factions are unaccounted for (on the half of the map I haven't been able to explore as of yet).

I had one minor crash (was trying to reload a saved game when it happened), but I simply restarted and reloaded again, no worries.  About 5 hours straight (with the one crash somewhere in that stretch).  No slowdowns, but occasionally the map hangs when I'm trying to scroll.  A couple of seconds later it starts scrolling again, though.

Good news for you 'mount animation' haters.  I've taken mounted units into combat (Sovereign & Heroes on Wargs), and they are NOT hanging up the game in any way.  Attacks & moves involving mounted units are now almost as fast as regular units.  No lags whatsoever that I've seen, and I've had mounted units in several dozen fights (some involving 11 grouped monsters on the other side).

I've been using all my character points for special abilities, i.e. the options ghat produce 1 gildar, tech, arcane knowledge, 2 food, and 2 mana.  The War Staff seems a little overpowered for the early game IMHO.  Perhaps if there was a lesser warstaff (that did 8 or 9 damage instead of 15), with the Greater (15) Warstaff appearing later, that might be better.  15 attack will kill about anything in the early game without too much trouble...

BTW, I just checked.  Warstaff is NO LONGER included in the Sovereign Creation interface at this time as far as I can tell.  I'd argue that the other items cost too many character points.  10 points for a padded cuirass for example, which only gives you 2 def - for those same 10 points you can get a +1 bonus to Tech (and hence research better gear sooner), assuming you don't mind holding out for the first few turns.  Plus the cuirass only costs about 32 gold or so gold, which is about 1/3 of your starting gold.

Wealthy only costs 5 (this seems about right), but that's an extra 1 gildar a turn for the rest of your GAME.  In about 32 turns, choosing to be Wealthy will end up paying for that cuirass, for half the character points.

Also, Longstrider Boots seem a little pointless.  They cost twice as much (10 versus 5 for the Traveling boots) for the same bonus.  And 5 Character Points vs. 17 gold (on turn 2) for Traveling boots is a no brainer for me (I'll spend the gold).  Plus, what's up with only the race of MEN (and none of the other races) getting Traveling boots in the first place?  This seems arbitrary and capricious.

I'd guess there might be an early game strategy where you armor up, buy a staff from the store, and attempt to take out a nearby player within the first 15 or so turns, but that seems like a dicey proposition to me.  6 Def for 36 character points, plus maybe  another 5 for Combat Spells, leaving 9 for a +3 to stats?  I'd argue that getting the War Machine Trait, and spending your 100 gildar on armor would give you more bang for your buck.  So yes, I'd suggest that Sovereign creation points for equipment probably should be tweaked downward IMHO.

BTW, War Machine/Tools of war makes Spears available in your shop, which currently is 9 attack for 25 gold, as well as some armor...

A simple formula: maybe 1 character point for every 12 gold you'd otherwise spend?  And unused character points can be traded in for 12 gold each?  That'd be 600 extra gold if your character spent no points on attributes...

Note that Club and Staff are now cheaper (1 and 2 Sov creation points, respectively, and staffs cost 20 in the shop).

 

With the 'lesser' number of stats to advance now, and 3 advancement points per level, leaving the starting stats around 10 (or lower) isn't too much of a disadvantage in my book.  You can push the stats up as you level up, fairly quickly, and those extra arcane & tech points make up for things (techs/spells show up sooner, which ALL of your units benefit from, not just the Sovereign).  Especially now that the start game is SO MUCH SLOOOOWER.

That being said, the disadvantages still look too scary for me, so I haven't taken them.  The one that reduces production while your sovereign is in a city is probably the 'least scary' of all of them.

That's all for now.  Off to bed!

Reply #32 from Stardock Forums Top

 version 1.09p

2 games, Medium Map, Max Factions, Played as a Custom Empire/Custum Leader

 So far been testing out the Hero~Zerg strategy for starting games.

   Both games were played on normal & hard. My empire dramatically outstrips the AI players in terms of Faction Power rating without ever building a single Unit. By turn 20-50 having 15+ heros and 1,ooo+ gilder & 500+ surplus ore was easilly acomplished. Generating gilder, tech & lore due to recruited Hero abilities kept maintenance costs at nearly nil for those 50 turns. Earning 20+gilder per turn this way seemed easy to do in both games. The AI response was better than previous versions, especially for defending the capital. However, diplomatic AI is still severly lacking. It is still possible to Declare war on a faction numerous times within a single turn. And doing this via Diplomacy for Gilder & Resources again dramatically increases your Empires/Kingdoms treasury (* see crash note #1).

   I see a faction agreeing to that Peace treaty multiple times in a turn or even over the span of several turns as an exploitable feature of diplomacy. But it sure feels godly when your that powerfull that early in the game; >','<

   Also note that it is still possible to buy items from a rival faction shops without agreeing to a NonAgressionPact. Simply move your Hero unit adjacent to said rival faction & wait for the area of influence to overtake the square your they are in. Then buy everything you need & leave or camp that hero & trade those items to another hero 1 square away for transport to your main host.

Crash notes & other Bugs during those 2 previous games:

1; Save Game Killing Crash after declaring war on 1 faction 9 times in 1 turn for gilder & resource rewards from 9 factions. Crash persistant on End Turn even after successful save game after 9 diplomatic Was Declarations. Save Game crash avoided by simply spacing out the war declartions over 2 turns. This exploit was repeatable every turn afterwords as well. With very few corrupt games metioned above. Seemed it was simply 'luck' that determines if the save game killing crash occurs.

2; Game crash after Capturing an enemy capitol while the hero of said city was 1 square outside the factions zone of influence & wedged between another factions zone of influence.

3; Strange resource spawn bug, saw 11 Darkling Camps spawn near the Kraxis faction in the 2nd game over the span of 9 turns while looting that factions Goodies Huts. Only played that game till turn 56, no crashes yet in that one, but I'm guessing having that many camps may have led to a game crash in late game play. Will play a later game on max dificulty to late game stage and see if it happens again.

4; Strange Goodies Hut spawns. In both games those wandering hero's of mine found patches of Goodies Huts tightly packed. 10+ in both areas. all level 1-3. loot was phenominal but felt strange to find and loot.

5; Recruited Hero disapeared from map & from the hero bar on the left between End Turn click & start of next turn. Reloading from the previous turns auto save restored the missing hero. This happened on 2 occasions after completing a low level quest with a recruited hero.

6; Recruited Hero is selected & attempts to move itself out of Sovereign stack while inside a factions zone of influence. Note, during this bug the faction was not hostile at the start of the move, the move itself was a hostile act. Doing this made the hero attempting to move disapear from game. Reloading turns auto save restored the hero. Moving the whole stack causing war made that same stack bounce 1 tile away from the target. it did not bounce the stack out of the Zone of influence.

General Impressions on version 1.09p

   Overall: :digichet:   thumbs up for this patch/version

   Alot of changes if your jumping straight from 1.09e like I did. Felt a little strange getting used to all the changes. However I must add my opinion that it has been a major improvement to E.WoM since so far I've only expereinced those 2 crashes in 2 games over many hours of game play. And 1 of those crashes was due to my test to see if the AI was changed regarding the above diplomacy exploit.

   Magic had been dramtically altered. At 1st this change did not sit well with me. But in hindsight for potential multiplayer battles I now think its a very good thing. In version 1.09e it was very easy to create 8 or more Imbued Heros all of whom could have upwards to 50+ mana. My fear was that it would be a trivial thing to assinate enemy Player soveriegns with mages. Now it won't be that easy to do the same. Just takes some getting used to. As for low level attack spells, researching lvl 2 spells and Mind Thrust seems to not take all that long and with 20+ Int it does some good damage early on in the game. Duh, and its all prettier.. hehe.

   The creature spawn is also a nice touch. So far my 3rd game on rediculase has seen my soveriegn killed numerous times & my single city empire wiped from creation by those roaming beasts. LOL... about time I got a little worried about them. I'll be trying that dificulty setting again tonight. Want to see if the hero~zerg works in that mode as well.

    All in all, Stardock has not disapointed me in regards to its continuing efforts to make this game better & more enjoyable to play. So eager for multiplayer to get all its kinks worked out. Hmmn, multiplayer, drooool.

   Have fun everyone.^^:beer:

Reply #33 from Stardock Forums Top

ops, I shouldnt post when im this tired.. I posted the above in the wrong section,, and cant figure out how to delete it. Sorry :(

Reply #34 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Diardiamond, reply 33
ops, I shouldnt post when im this tired.. I posted the above in the wrong section,, and cant figure out how to delete it. Sorry
End of Diardiamond's quote

Your posting is fine here as far as I am concerned.  It's a discussion about what we are seeing in 1.09p, which is what I've been posting about as well.  Of course, if there are specific bugs you are seeing, it does help to post those in individual threads in the support forum (or add your post to the thread about the relevant bug). 

Interesting reading!