1.09o/p initial impressions/changes discussion- while we wait for the level 3 city crash issue to be resolved...

Hey y'all!

For those of us that are 'stuck' because of the level 3 city crash issue (which I'm sure will be addressed shortly), I'd like to share my experience with the early game stuff.

I generally play kingdom in my games.  Under the new beta build, 1.09o, I have noticed these things:

1) Dodge now works.  In a big honkin' font no less!  Now you know when a weapon is blocked, dodged, or how much damage you just caused.  Other than the HUGE font (it could be a little smaller...), I'm glad to see that combat is working 'as advertised' now.

2) Monsters are making their presence known, and are immediate threats to your cities.  No more waiting a few turns to build those defenders, it's now a priority.  As is some warfare tech (Peasants aren't going to cut it, unless there are a few of them).

3) Haven't been able to  test bows under the new build yet, as apparently they aren't a 'choosable' option to begin the game with anymore.  I did research the 'Crude Bows' tech, and was about to equip a hero with one once I had the cash to purchase it, and will report on functionality later.

4) Needing to build a hut immediately for your first city (so the population will grow past 5) seems silly... Essentially you can staff one improvement, then you are stuck until that hut gets built.  If the objective is to slow down the initial game, this accomplishes that nicely.

5) Population (as a resource) is NOW working as advertised (see #4, above).  No more building improvements you don't have the population for.

6) I faced 6 spiders and a bear in one of my combats, which had just attacked one of my newly built cities.  Fortunately, I had a guard unit which I dropped in the city to protect it until the city was able to build their own.  Said guard unit had a 6 attack and 7 defense (thanks to weapons research), and with some skillful use of terrain (so he wouldn't have more than 2-3 creatures attacking at once), he was able to repulse them.  Without the 7 armor, he'd have been toast.  Needing to repel such attacks almost immediately may be a good or bad thing, but I like the extra challenge (as long as ALL other kingdoms/empires are facing the same issues).

7) Sending a lone Sovereign out without an escort may be asking for trouble.  I used to look for combats, now I'm shying away from them until I am able to get an escort.   Until you have spells, decent armor, and/or a nice weapon, going solo may be hazardous to your Sovereign's health.  This is the first game where my Sovereign spent a fair amount of time at home recuperating from wounds.

8) I'm seeing less Materials rewards in the Goodie huts.  This may be luck of the draw, but I HAD to build several workshops in my first city to get things rolling to compensate.  My start game really slowed down this time, while I waited for the necessary materials to accumulate, so I could build defenders and improvements.

9) I didn't see any salted pork as rewards for successful battles, which forced my Sovereign and heroes to head home to heal several times.  I liked having the Salted Pork as a reward out in the wild, although perhaps it was being rewarded a too often under 1.09n.

10) I was able to design a unit with greaves and a helm at the start of the game, which I don't remember being able to do before.  So I had a choice of building a peasant in 3 turns, or a tougher unit with a staff and light armor in 4 turns (and a higher materials requirement).  The tougher unit was needed about immediately, due to the monsters being on the warpath, but two units in a city seemed to be able manage for the first few turns.

 

That's all I can think of for now.  I'll start another game and post an update in a few hours.

17,336 views 34 replies
Reply #1 Top

Nice feedback, The only thing I don't quite agree with is the dislike of having to build a hut first. To me that makes perfect sense, it's not right to send your pop straight to the workshop if they havn't even got a place to live.

I would love to add my own feedback but I live in England and will have to wait till after work till I can play, Hopefully The game crashing on level three cities when units are built bug will be fixed by then :) Really interested to hear other peoples impressions on the new version. For instance do we now have to give more thought to how we use our population and how is population growth with the changed prestiege modifiers? Is the AI any better? 

Reply #2 Top

I must say that for me, that sounds quite exciting. I cannot wait to try it out by myself. :) (and hopefully that lvl city 3 bug is something that can be fixed easily)

Reply #3 Top

Can you pls. fix this prob. ? Pls. pls. pls.  :pout:   I had so much fun the last 1,5h. The game is so much better...

 

Some short impression after around 50 seasons playing a small map on normal with 3 oppenents:

 

- with altar and the 10materials at the beginning, pacing was perfect. Everytime I had something to build or train.

- UI is so much better. I got the informations i need without great rummaging.

- Oppenent AI reacted logical in the beginning. Karavox appeared near to my capital city without units. The city was undefended. I moved my sov. with two units in my the capital city. Karavox turned around and ran away before i could get him. Nice behaviour...

- Creature AI (mostly bandits) were not so clever. They attacked me/my units (not citys), alltough they were inferior. But thats OK for me. Stupid bandits, what can you expect?! ;)

- its still a little bit confusing, after ending a turn and more then one message appears (idle city, researched new tech, diplomacy message or researched new spell) 

 

What else can i say?! Thank you for improving a released game. :) You make my gamer heart leap for joy. :')

 

I hope you can fix this bug soon, so i can show Karavox what i do with traitors.  ;P

 

Reply #4 Top

I also liked the addition of the weapon/armor pictures at the training screen so you can see what each troop type is equipped with.  I am getting a CTD when I try to train to troops after I built one old type from a previous game.  Will try to purge the troop file and play some more. 

Tjashen remarks have also been my experience as well.  I like the faction starting techs idea as well.

Keep it up!

Reply #5 Top

My experiences exactly. I wonder if the crashing will go away when city is leveled to 4. And I started late cause initially dloaded above 1GB of "update" before the forum post became available about the "go back to 1.09e then update to 1.09o" topic. The game mechanics seem completely changed (again) and so a few tries will be required to streamline a strategy..

Reply #6 Top

A quick update.

I started a new game, since I had to 'fix' my custom faction (Master Archer trait is not working, so I went with the Seasoned Warriors trait or whatever it's called, the one that makes experienced units available).

I'm keeping my cities at level 2 or less for now, so I can play with the other features in the game.

Bows have been broken down into three separate techs now (Crude, Short, Long).  Still need an archery range for units though.  Not sure if only 4 attack for a Crude Bow is good or a little weak (assuming Longbow is still 12).

I DID finally come across some salted pork, after fighting some bandits.  It looks like Spiders and Bears aren't packing...

As for the 'hut' thing, I don't mind this for cities that pioneers build (in 1.09n, you didn't get any population until you built one, so 5 isn't much different in my book), but would suggest that the city the Sovereign builds gets a free hut or something, to speed up the initial game a bit (like it worked before).  Either way, I can live with it.

I've had a couple of crashes in the new game (usually between turns), but as this is still a beta build, I'm not worried.  My autosave is set for every 2 or 3 turns, so picking up almost where I left off isn't that big of a deal.

Occasionally the game will hang for 20-30 seconds during a turn, but doesn't crash.  I'm guessing the multi-threaded AI and virtual memory disk caching may be behind this, but don't really know.  I'll post a debug.err again when the game gets truly sluggish.

It would be nice if the save game could remember my camera settings.  I like an overhead view (so I don't have issues trying to click squares behind mountains), and zoom the map out a bit and orient it square (north at the top, instead of the diagonal).  Something to implement in a future build, I think...

I'm liking the additional challenge which the 'groupie' monsters are posing.

That's all I can think of at the moment.  More later!

Edit: I just saw a post where someone mentioned deleting older custom units, to work around the level 3 city issue.  I will try this and see if it helps my older save game.

Reply #7 Top

Its possible to train the pre - built units, but the game chrashed if you train custom units....

Reply #8 Top

Quoting tjashen, reply 6
I'm liking the additional challenge which the 'groupie' monsters are posing.
End of tjashen's quote

I agree with this. I started the game on normal difficulty, and a dozen or so turns later I noticed this huge horde of monsters hanging out around the forests - a stone's throw from my capital. I'm liking how the dev's handled this.

I did experience a crash, but I didn't track it since I was playing late last night and needed to go to bed. It *could* have been the level 3 city issue, my main city was growing pretty darn quick there.

Reply #9 Top

nice work Stardock!  haven't been able to play too long, but i love the changes to the tech tree so far... they're start to make much more sense now!

Reply #11 Top

Hot fix scheduled for today to address this.

Reply #12 Top

Hot fix scheduled for today to address this.
End of quote

\o/

Impressions:

- mana maintenance window is fantastic.

- I like the new icons for the spellbooks (combat, terraforming etc.)

- With 1.09o it was the first time i created a pure channeler (much int., very low strengh and dex., all spellbooks etc.) and what i´ve missed was a job thats fits with such a pure magical char. Something like "Alchemist - provides 1 Mana per season" or "Adept - decreased enemys spell resistance".... you guys are much more creativ than i´m, so only 2 examples to explain what i mean.

Reply #13 Top

Thank you Thank you Thank you!

im not a poster, just a silent reader with a lot of affection for Stardock. You are making my dream game.

Suikoden meets Turn based strategy.

Ill shush now.

oh oh oh, P.S

Please make multiplayer work on large map, and polish the map editor. I know this will take time, getting the foundations right first.

Reply #14 Top

Ignore my previous comments about lack of Materials.  I just had 'bad luck' at the goodie huts.  In my third game (game 2 got stuck by the level 3 thing again), I found 10 materials, then 5 materials, and another 5 materials in three nearby goodie huts.

That being said, it might not be a bad idea to start the Sovereign out with 3 materials, so you can build a peasant escort immediately, or use it for buildings.  I'd say not much more than that, due to the special ability which gives you the bonus materials.  You wouldn't want to water that down too much.

If there was a different way to rework that special ability, so that it was relevant throughout the game, that might be cool.  Maybe you could get +1 to the materials you find at Goodie huts, and/or a 5% bonus to materials production.

Yay, hotfix soon! B)

 

I remembered the other thing.  Sometimes, the Zone Of Control around cities disappears.  Reloading the game corrects this problem.  Also, I think the Zone Of Control may be expanding a little too quickly.  If I were to suggest a change, I'd say limit the 'radius' to the City size (so a Size 1 city has a 1 radius, a Size 2 city has a 2 radius, etc), unless there is bonus structure in place. 

For all I know, that 'Beacon' thingie may be the thing bumping the radius, I haven't played enough yet to tell if the other cities' radiuses are smaller at the same sizes.

Also, Level 2 cities are showing up a LOT faster than they did before (once the hut is in place).  I kind of liked having to work at it a number of turns to get to a level 2 city under the old system.  Sure, Levels 3-5 probably took a lot longer than they needed to, but 1 and 2 seemed about right.  JMHO

 

Reply #15 Top

Quoting tjashen, reply 14
Ignore my previous comments about lack of Materials.  I just had 'bad luck' at the goodie huts.  In my third game (game 2 got stuck by the level 3 thing again), I found 10 materials, then 5 materials, and another 5 materials in three nearby goodie huts.

That being said, it might not be a bad idea to start the Sovereign out with 3 materials, so you can build a peasant escort immediately, or use it for buildings.  I'd say not much more than that, due to the special ability which gives you the bonus materials.  You wouldn't want to water that down too much.

If there was a different way to rework that special ability, so that it was relevant throughout the game, that might be cool.  Maybe you could get +1 to the materials you find at Goodie huts, and/or a 5% bonus to materials production.

Yay, hotfix soon!
End of tjashen's quote

I started 2 different games last night, both of them I used the same sovereign (recently created, post-patch). The first start I only had a couple resources, including an extra mine from my specialty that I picked with my sovereign. The second start I hit the jackpot, I had 2 fertile lands, 2 mines, a green shard sitting right next to my city, and a bunch of other goodies laying around in close range. But, this was also the city that had a horde of monsters sitting just a little ways off, and they were pretty brutal!

Reply #16 Top

OK so here is a wild one for ya. In 1.09o, I was not able to build caravans as Capitar. Not at all. I had the tech even researched a few more for good measure, but sadly no caravans. Anyone having this issue?

Reply #17 Top

AI do NOTHING, No AI - no fun, game is dead. There was enouth time to make visible changes. Brad just telling stories ((

Reply #18 Top

I have a level 3 city in my new game and have not experienced a CTD after I deleted old custom sov and old pre 109.o custom troops. Just built an archery range and will try archers next session.  Just recruited a hero with the native ability of ice blast, very cool.  Makes me wish the queen wasn't already married.<X3   That would be a nice gene to pass on! 

Great work folks... it is getting better with every pass.  Nice work on the buildings and the tech tree as well.  Love the tweaks in the civ techs.

 

Reply #19 Top

Quoting Lantros, reply 12

Hot fix scheduled for today to address this.


Impressions:

- mana maintenance window is fantastic.

- I like the new icons for the spellbooks (combat, terraforming etc.)

- With 1.09o it was the first time i created a pure channeler (much int., very low strengh and dex., all spellbooks etc.) and what i´ve missed was a job thats fits with such a pure magical char. Something like "Alchemist - provides 1 Mana per season" or "Adept - decreased enemys spell resistance".... you guys are much more creativ than i´m, so only 2 examples to explain what i mean.
End of Lantros's quote

 

I would also like to see intelligence play a bigger role. IIRC, int is needed by non-sovereign casters to cast different spells. However, as a sovereign, I never really saw the need to give him int. I haven't played the 1.09o (waiting for the hotfix) but I'm curious if int affects spells in any way.

Reply #20 Top

Int does increase some spell effects.  The one that comes to mind is the Dodge spell, which adds to your (now working) dodge ability by some fraction of the Caster's INT.  There seem to be a LOT more spells now, too.

Reply #21 Top

I agree but I did get salted pork and I like that you need the hut do expand right away.  Otherwise the Royalty perk is too powerful.  In my game I got less materials from battlefields but when I did get materials, I always seemed to get 10.

Reply #22 Top

Best news ever :) thank you

@ the hot fix post by Frogboy

 

Reply #23 Top

I also can't build caravans as Capitar!

Reply #24 Top

...................COOL B)

Reply #25 Top

Quoting superstevenR, reply 13
Thank you Thank you Thank you!

im not a poster, just a silent reader with a lot of affection for Stardock. You are making my dream game.

Suikoden meets Turn based strategy.
End of superstevenR's quote

That's an interesting perspective. I saw too much of Master of Magic in it to consider it in relation to Suikoden, but the whole idea of gathering an army of champions to your cause and fighting for control of the Shards of magic does ring true.

 

The new changes are interesting. Again I have to redesign stuff and figure out where they moved techs, but things do seem more streamlined. I'm teching towards archery to see if it's still viable/overpowered, and I'm going to box an AI into their starting area again and see how they react.