Dodge in 1.09n

Has anyone seen it yet?

from Elemental Forums

Hi,

 

I'm creating this thread because I (and maybe a couple other people) are the only ones to have mentioned this issue, so I was wondering if others had the same problem to begin with: I haven't seen a successful dodge in my games.

Dodge is supposed to be rolled against accuracy, and if the accuracy roll ends up lower, then the attacker misses. However, I haven't seen any such thing happening.

I've tested this on many configurations, partly to see if a successful dodge would be displayed as "blocked", thus explaining the problem. So, using the xml files, I created a game where peasants had 100 dodge, and, of course, 0 armor and standard accuracy. And then another where the peasants had normal dodge but substandard accuracy. And played them for an hour each, running many combat encounters.

 

The conclusion is: dodge just isn't working in my games, and "blocked" only means the armor roll beat the attack roll and is unrelated to dodge.

So I'm curious: why isn't anyone mentioning this in their bug list ? Am I the only one to even *have* this issue (that would be the weirdest bug I've ever seen then) ? I mean, this accuracy vs dodge has been requested by the community many times, so it's not like nobody cares if it's broken, so I'm really puzzled here.

 

(I insist quite a lot on this dodge thing because the Dodge/Accuracy and Spell/Resistance things are some of the best additions and a major step into making tactical combat and gear somewhat deep.)

elemental
10,351 views 13 replies
Reply #1 from Elemental Forums Top

Being a beta that requires internet so Stardock can make data changes without forcing us to update/reinstall, doesn't it mean that we are using their XML files and not ours? Not saying Dodge doesn't work (as said in some threads) but that I'm not sure we can tweak basic files to check stuff.

Reply #2 from Elemental Forums Top

To be honest in the current beta my game slows down or crashes in most tactical battles so i havn't had much opportunity to look at how well the dodge is working... tho in the few battles I have had I have yet to see a dodge.

On a side note in the build menu for cities I have noticed there are currently two buildings that raise gildar production by 25% in their descriptions... I am sure one of these is meant to produce one gildar per turn. I am suprised something this simple still hasn't been fixed in the patches so far.

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Reply #3 from Elemental Forums Top

I've said it before - I seriously doubt Stardock are doing secret mini-patches without telling people in a time where most of their staff is on vacation. There's no behind-the-scenes tampering going on of the game files.

Logically, I can easily defend this with two statements

1) It would be an absolute nightmare for stardock to bughunt if players play different versions without being aware of it

2) It would be an absolute nightmare for players to report bugs if they're running different versions without being aware of it

I may be wrong, as always, but I doubt it.

 

Regarding changing dodge:

I gave a unit 155 dodge: http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/7799/elemental1290605347.jpg

And it didn't dodge one out of 20 attacks. Either the system was not explained properly, or it isn't working.

Reply #4 from Elemental Forums Top

Since you guys are playing around with the .xml files, have you tried boosting dex to some obscene value to see if THAT might be the new dodge stat?  Or is that the stat you are already raising?

Yes, I do care if Dodge is working.  I had assumed it was, and that Armor factored into it (I wasn't aware of separate die rolls).  I've seen block a few times, usually involving units carrying shields, and I guess I think of that as a 'dodge' of sorts.

I've just been more focused on other, gameplay oriented items as I had heard that Combat was being overhauled anyways.

Reply #5 from Elemental Forums Top

I was going to post my findings later this week, but dodge is broken in the current beta. Your post pretty much says it all, I just wanted to wait until I hade time to test a few more stat combinations. I think this is likely to be a rather small issue to fix.

Reply #6 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting tjashen, reply 4
Since you guys are playing around with the .xml files, have you tried boosting dex to some obscene value to see if THAT might be the new dodge stat?  Or is that the stat you are already raising?
End of tjashen's quote

Yes, it is. I've also tried without raising it, and with a base accuracy of 0. My peasants still hit every time.


Yes, I do care if Dodge is working.  I had assumed it was, and that Armor factored into it (I wasn't aware of separate die rolls).  I've seen block a few times, usually involving units carrying shields, and I guess I think of that as a 'dodge' of sorts.
End of quote

Well, all the evidence so far tends to show that a result of "blocked" is unrelated to the accuracy vs. dodge system, and entirely linked to the armor vs. damage system. Shields contribute only as far as they bring an armor bonus but you can have a results of "blocked" with just a good leather armor. However, no armor, no "blocked", no matter how high your dodge is.

I think it's a major issue: it makes almost all items irrelevant.

Reply #7 from Elemental Forums Top

I just tried raising Dex to 63 (31 dodge) on a character, versus a  23 accuracy.  No armor, was hit every time.  Dodge skill did go up (1/2 of Dex, to 31), btw.

So, for now it's not how nimble you are, but how thick your armor is...

 

Was dodge working in 1.09E?

Reply #8 from Elemental Forums Top

It would definitely be good to have Dodge working. A Shield is a joke without it...

Reply #9 from Elemental Forums Top

Half of the stuff is a joke without it: armors with dodge penalties, dexterity, weapons with accuracy or dodge bonuses or minuses, some spells... since I like to do some tests for balance assessment purpose (probably the thing I can contribute to best), I feel like I can't really do much at the moment, and it's highly frustrating.

Reply #10 from Elemental Forums Top

I feel that pain. I can feel the game getting there slowly and right now I want to do some real testing and the current patch seems to really be going in the right direction yet in its current state it crashes too much and quite a few key componants are currently not there (ai and dex for example)

Reply #11 from Elemental Forums Top

Well, Kael's only been on the job for 3 weeks, we can't expect Rome in a day you know.

 

I do think the game is going in the right direction.  Even at 1.09E, it has become pretty good (I actually like it a lot).  They can't please everyone though (I like the old Mana system), and since this is a BETA we can focus on what is working and try to make that better.

The sooner we get a beta with a working dodge, though, the sooner we can evaluate how good it should be.

1.09E isn't a beta, though, so anyone who reads this that lacks the fortitude to deal with significantly more crashes, etc. probably should stick with that for now.

I'd like to see 1.1 implemented right, even if it takes a few extra weeks to get there.  I can wait for my 'free first expansion' a bit longer as need be.

Reply #12 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting tjashen, reply 11
Well, Kael's only been on the job for 3 weeks, we can't expect Rome in a day you know.

 
I do think the game is going in the right direction.  Even at 1.09E, it has become pretty good (I actually like it a lot).  They can't please everyone though (I like the old Mana system), and since this is a BETA we can focus on what is working and try to make that better.

The sooner we get a beta with a working dodge, though, the sooner we can evaluate how good it should be.

1.09E isn't a beta, though, so anyone who reads this that lacks the fortitude to deal with significantly more crashes, etc. probably should stick with that for now.

I'd like to see 1.1 implemented right, even if it takes a few extra weeks to get there.  I can wait for my 'free first expansion' a bit longer as need be.
End of tjashen's quote

I think most people posting here feel the same, I certainly am enjoying the latest beta dispite the things I mentioned above. In fact The latest beta has really got me excited about the future of this game.

Reply #13 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting tjashen, reply 11
Well, Kael's only been on the job for 3 weeks, we can't expect Rome in a day you know.
End of tjashen's quote
I'm not criticizing Kael, or anyone at Stardock for that matter, though. I'm answering to the comment that a shield is a joke without the dodge mechanics working, by stating that the whole idea of game balance is pointless without it and cannot be tested.