Terrible Truth

lets see how much 1.1 changes the game ... if not wait till the first Xpack or 2nd or 5th.

The problem with city spam was it was so much more effective than picking the best spots and building good cities that there was no reason not too. This is bad because the way that takes more thought, effort, and skill should be at least equal, if not better than, the easy way for a good player. The complaints about too much come from the AI building cities next to every resource node and is not exactly the same issue (though the other must be resolved first). The reason a mod cannot fix it is because all decent fixes require changes to the game engine that modders cannot make at this time.

The problem with doom stacks is the same as city spam: it was so easy and effective no other style of play made sense. Beginners can go play the easy AI and work their way up, so having and easy way to win is unneeded.

The changes required changes to the engine and were the way they were because the engine did not support them.

The AI cheats like crazy now and is still pathetic; increasing it more is not the answer. The AI must be improved so that it can play better with what it has.

 So what everyone is complaining about is their lack of willpower and selfcontrol? They want it hard wired into the game that they have to play the perfect way that is not fun enough for them to play on their own? Do I have this right? If they won't play it now they won't like being forced to.

In this complex a game the player will always have over whelming advantages. The programing ability you want does not exist. So cheating and simplifying the game for the AI is a must. The problem with the game cheating is that it does it stupidly. You want it to cheat in ways that are fun. This is the point the owners are missing.   

They need to cheat more. Just selectively and with a sense of humor.  Cheating more at the higher levels is mandatory but with more focus. There should be a few dozen specified cheating methods of play. So you find yourself going "Why is the computer doing that and I need to do something to counter this.". Random roll gets you a sudden wave assault or several AI's combined in attacks or declaration of war with raiding parties. No matter what you will be better at it.  But There would be sudden reasonable changes of pace to keep you enthralled. 

Should I point out that in MOM if you go for the spell of mastery and points you will end up with a hundred cities?

What you are complaining about is that the computer does not use the resources it gets in a meaningful way. That it does not raid you enough.  You would probably like the computer being able to form privateer war parties to bedevil you and take your cities causing the forming of small enemy empires from your own outposts. That way they could fight you with out declaring war on you and risking their cities. Like the British  and French did to each other. Just suddenly appearing armies under a magic casting leader who was a leader under one flag or another or maybe they give troops to a free hero to attack you.  It is not the city spam but the lack of doing things with it. Having your outpost raided by Privateers groups  independently financed by 3 different AIs  would make that spam hurt real good. You would spam for the fights or not to avoid them. They should cheat, cheat, cheat, cheat till you like it. The AI needs more options because it always uses the ones it has poorly compared to you. Which is why you don't need a privateer option like the computer does.

DON"T ASK THE PROGRAMMERS TO SUPER HUMAN. Ask for wise cheats that are fun to thwart.

What if I don't WANT to play on Tiny, I want to feel like whatever I'm doing is a huge, grand event, but I don't want the immersion breaking deal of the computer constantly sending pioneers to place a village on top of a gold mine firmly in the middle of the peninsula I own and he has no links to? It would be like if Sauron sent a bunch of Goblins and their wives to go make a school in the middle of Rohan.

Maybe I should make myself plain.

Yes. I want the programmers to write a hundred thousand lines of god like code that make the computer play better than me.

But, I will be happy with a thousand line twist that has me smiling. Settling for a dozen little advantages for the AI can be a lot of achievable fun. I don't demand rewriting the way the game works. Try to think of simple easy things they can do within the present frame work.

City building is almost all this game has to offer. It needs ways to get the AI to attack. I am trying to point out that it does not have to be perfect programing.

They don't have to form a perfect strategy for the AI. They need a few hundred tricks....cheats if you will. While the AI is bumbling through their effort at duplicating human play they need preplanned fun things happening. Suddenly monsters start raiding you outer buildings for some dumb excuse. Privateers so AI's can attack with out getting wasted by the almighty players.  When the AI declares war it suddenly has Calvary to raid you outer buildings. Properly done cheating will make the AI seem super smart and be fun to play. It is easier to throw a dozen tricks than to figure out how the human mind works.

By the way the AI leaders NEED free armor and weapons. They are way too easy to kill. Would you honestly notice the cheating if it was not pointed out to you? You would just admire the way the programmers were smart enough to defend the heroes. 

PROPERLY DONE CHEATING LOOKS LIKE GOOD PLAYING BY THE AI. 

Do you want a mega hitpoint monstrosity waiting to die in a city or a few 15 point fast warg riders in a group you need three armies to box in so you can stop them from burning your buildings? Do they really need the AI to plan, buy them and set them up or just roll the dice and have them pop in. Will you notice the deference? Why not a cheating pool for the AI based on what a Human could do with the resources at hand? Roll the dice and suddenly the AI seems to have planned anyone of a few dozen smart things. Will you care that he was not realy smart or will you be laughing and cursing the wiley AI? The AI does not need to play the game. Just seem to.

Making sure something is properly done is harder than you would expect.

Do you play Medieval 2: Total War? The AI does cheat a bit in that, and most of the time you hardly notice. In the LotR mod made for the Kingdoms expansion, the modders decided the AI wasn't difficult enough so they upped the cheating. For me personally it made the game absolutely no fun. It didn't feel like I was outmaneuvering opponents, it felt like I was trying to climb a mountain. I wasn't facing an opponent anymore, just a series of natural obstacles that would result if there was an AI or not. It was difficulty for the sake of difficulty, and it meant anyone who wanted to just enjoy the game rather than enjoy crushing the AI was left sitting on the sidelines thinking "Oh what a shame, this COULD have been fun".

Yes, there will not be a perfect AI capable of outperforming humans, it will not be so amazingly intelligent it will sing "A bicycle built for two" as we quit the game, but keep in mind this game is made by Stardock, a small company that made some of the most lifelike 4X AI I've ever seen in GalCiv.

Impliment these heavyhanded cheating techniques for the AI on harder difficulties if it is asked for, but remember there are people who play the game not to win and enjoy beating the challenge, but to play the game. The most disappointing part of any 4X or RTS for me is the victory. After all, if I've been enjoying it then winning just means it's over.

It does, but coming up with enough cheats to not be repeditve and having them randomly occur in a way that does not look like cheating would be a lot of work. The power to give the AI aid beyond simple econ / unit buffs are better left to map makers to implement via an event system, rather than making the engine do it.

Also, any cheating that is built into the system should be optional and selected separately from difficulty. That way players can set the cheating to the highest level they can stand without making the game unfun because the AI is cheating too balantly for them.

Have you played MOM? Did you always go for the Paladins because it was the best choice? Never tried to win with the swordsmen and archers or cavalry? If you only play one way then you are a parrot or a monkey.

Your real complaint would seem to be that in order to win on higher levels you have to doomstack to overcome megahitpoints. Which I suggested outfitting the leaders for free, buffing the armies for free, and free summons to change things up over simply having to hammer through all those hitpoints. I also suggested a few free small aggressive armies to give you something you have to hunt down.

If you problem is city spam. Don't form alliances and kill their settlers. If you can't control yourself to build the cities you want then the problem is not in the game.

Ignoring the juvenile and insulting tone of this post for a moment, I disagree with most of what you say here. What exactly makes you think that you are speaking for the majority here?

Am I not the one that kept saying Mod...Mod...Mod? I  quote myself "If you build the mod they will down load it." .

I honestly think the programmers can build the best mods and try out different styles of play and find out what everyone likes. Then use that to form the base game.

As for the cheating being optional I kept saying mod.  That way you could stack the cheats.   They don't need to come with hundreds when they can do 10 or 20 at at time mods. Then they can come up with a comprehensive mod of the ones people like.

I do have not played MoM, I do not spam cities, and I am not one of those complaning against the AI spamming cities. I do dislike that by spamming cities one gains an advantage with no trade off. I do expect higher level AI to have a method to building cities other than "anywhere there is an unclaimed resource", especially if city spam has been properly balanced so that there is a trade off involved so spamming is not universally best strategy.

I am against non-generic cheating being built into the game because, and would rather such methods for aiding the AI be left to map makers to add in.

Mod based cheating does not work, because the engine must support it. Therefore it should be supported but left to players and map makers. That is why I am not saying "mod".

Also, the core game should be balanced, and then allow people to modify it if balance does not suit them / they faind some other balance better. Currently the game is unbalanced beyond the ability of mods to fix, as the core mechanics are broken.

So you disagree that they have a amazing game that has some very nice features that they are probably going to do away with because some very vocal people are gripping. How the programmers haven't figured out how to use these features to their fullest extent. So in disgust the programmers are simply going to do away with them because it is taking to long to figure out the magic waiting to be found. That there are those that see the potential and don't want it lost but put in a mod so it can be worked on to see if a solution to the problems can be found. That these people are not vocal enough so the great options will probably be lost.

I don't speak for the majority on many points.

I do on some. AI Leaders and armies are too easy to kill so I suggest using the options they have already programmed in a simple  straightforward manner that might let them avoid the magahitpoint problem.   I point out that the AI needs this help to over come the human advantage of actual intelligence.

It is not insulting. They keep gripping that they want it harder on the top difficulty. I say give them what they want. Unbeatable top level. Don't pussy foot around or listen to the whining about they have to be able to beat it.  It simply has to take awhile to crush them.

I don't know if the programmers are smart enough to over come the planning issues. The games I have played don't do it very well so why should I expect them to? I instead offer more raiding of human cities to offset human advantages and to give you someone to fight.

I will say I don't understand your reply. Where and how is the cheating going to take place if a vehicle for it is not built? Left to players what? To map makers how? I am saying that they should wire in behavioral modifications into mod style that can be run to change the style of AI play if the player so chooses.

Sounds like complaining

More complaining about others complaining.

Gimme!  Gimme!  I want Calvary patrols!  Would you stop complaining already?

*sigh*

I guess if you complain it its ok.  If someone else complains they should have a "hammer dropped on it".

Right.....

You would think that age would teach you to think before you speak.  I guess not.....

Having settings for cheating would be easier than mod style, because they would need to revamp how mods are loaded so they can be turned on/off individually. Even if they did, not everyone wants to have to modify the XML or deal with mods.

The main things v1.1 is targeted to address are:

1. City spam
2. General AI crumminess
3. Hero spam
4. Crummy spells
5. Your society's direction being determined by random resource placement
6. General clean up of research trees
7. General balancing of improvements and techs and monsters

What v1.1 will NOT address but instead will come in the expansion:

1. Tactical Battles
2. Combat System changes
3. Spells having a cool off time
4. Spells having a casting time
5. Counterspells
6. Spell Abilities not requiring mana but instead having a cool down and time to use.

Frogboy: um, global mana pool and initiative based combat?

Global mana pool is in v1.1 and initiative based combat wont' show up until the expansion.