Current "Can't Lose" Strategies

I'm starting this thread to document how we, the players, are currently winning. Then Stardock can take note and adapt to make the game more challenging for everyone. }:)

So far all of my victories are on "ridiculous" AI settings. I favor smaller maps, but I've won on large with the maximum number of opponents as well.

Diplomatic Victory:

This is actually pretty darn easy. I would rate it as easier than conquest victory because you don't have to bother with hunting down all the AI Sovereigns. Play as Kingdom. Make sure "Treaties" in the Diplomacy tree is the first or at least one of the first technologies you research. Also make sure you build one observer ASAP in each city you found. When you first meet an AI, on that very turn if possible, sign a treaty with them. Non-aggression, tech, money doesn't matter (personally I do all of them if I can). The trick here is getting the treaty signed early so they don't have time to form an opinion about you. Having just one observer in each city will, shockingly, put you in the "your military is stronger than mine" category for quite awhile, so getting the treaty signed shouldn't cost you more than 10-30 gold. As long as you have that one treaty going you will never slip below "warm" as long as you keep your military relatively equal - and again, you can do this by just cranking out cheap units with an attack rating - no one is ever going to attack you so actual combat effectiveness doesn't matter. As soon as you start having children grow up marry them off. Your goal is to get at least one child married to every other faction. Once that is accomplished you are set, the only question is how long it takes you to raise the obscene amount of gold each faction will want to sign the alliance treaty. The game does raise the "base cost" of treaties based on how many you already have active, so expect to pay out the nose for the last few.

Conquest:

Many other people have already posted on the relative ease of steamrolling the AI with champions/summons/archers whatever. One thing I will point out for fellow war-mongers is stop bothering with rushing to research archery/advanced archery - just use the faction creator to make a custom faction with the "Master Archer" trait. It only costs 2 of the 10 points you get when creating a faction, quite the bargain. In fact unless there are unlisted benefits for the pre-built factions making your own is, at present, far more powerful than using the in-game ones.

I've stopped using archers for now until the AI can put up more of a fight.

Spell of Making:

This one is just tedious, I've only bothered with this once. As a side note, are there any spells in the game after level 10? I researched level 11 but saw no new spells, so didn't bother with 12. Also I found it silly that on a large map, with all factions as opponents, the world contained exactly FIVE shards: 2 fire and 1 of the others. I mean, in order to capture and control them I could have just won through conquest anyway. That was in 1.08.

Master Quest:

This was actually a bit of a challenge as far as some of the battles. You'll have to run all over the map (which is no problem if you have non-ag packs with everyone) but the real problem was the final fight that includes a guy with 100 defense. Liberal use of the Deflect and Berserk spells got me through that.

I will update after another couple hundred hours of gameplay ;) In the meantime, how do you win?

22,767 views 21 replies
Reply #1 Top

I've only done conquest:

1) city spam

2) research military and economic improvements (need money for those expensive archers)

3) start rocking enemy AI as soon as you find them, they're easier to kill earlier in the game.

4) I try to find crystal sites as a priority since you can add all those nifty items to customized groups

5) several strong groups are better than one big kill group. I try to operate them in twos to prevent the AI from attacking first.

6) summon monsters, imbue, fire dart, and fire ball are my first spells researched

That's pretty much all I need to do to win on conquest. I've not tried any of the others. I keep trying to beat my previous conquest win (turn #) as that keeps me going.

Reply #2 Top



Master Quest:

This was actually a bit of a challenge as far as some of the battles. You'll have to run all over the map (which is no problem if you have non-ag packs with everyone) but the real problem was the final fight that includes a guy with 100 defense. Liberal use of the Deflect and Berserk spells got me through that.

I will update after another couple hundred hours of gameplay In the meantime, how do you win?

End of quote

 

If you're going for the master quest you're pretty much guaranteed to get Sarog (or whatever the dragon's name is) and he can win every battle in the master quest alone.  100 defense means jack when you have a dragon that does true damage and can one shot him.

Reply #3 Top

Quoting Dhraconus, reply 2




quoting post


Master Quest:

This was actually a bit of a challenge as far as some of the battles. You'll have to run all over the map (which is no problem if you have non-ag packs with everyone) but the real problem was the final fight that includes a guy with 100 defense. Liberal use of the Deflect and Berserk spells got me through that.

I will update after another couple hundred hours of gameplay In the meantime, how do you win?




 

If you're going for the master quest you're pretty much guaranteed to get Sarog (or whatever the dragon's name is) and he can win every battle in the master quest alone.  100 defense means jack when you have a dragon that does true damage and can one shot him.
End of Dhraconus's quote

It's too bad the AI never does this. It would be so much more fun & cooler thinking about this from the: "how the hell am I going to kill that uber yithril group with Kuhla Kahn, wife, heir, 8-man archers, catapults and dragon" :O  :O  :O  :O  :O  :O   point of view, instead of: "how fast can I rack all my opponents with this unbeatable dragon" :rolleyes: point of view.

Reply #4 Top

I saw the AI build dragon roosts in 1.08 but never actually field dragons. Yet to be seen in 1.09.

AI still treats 1 single observer (3/0) in every city you have in the early game (say, -100 turns) as you are stronger than they are. I realize AI overhaul is coming in 1.1, just saying. This is on "ridiculous".

I've been trying to explore alternative strategies, as that is what I think will give Elemental the best "legs" (as in, the same reason I still play MoM 16 years later). Tried doing things like play a game and do no arcane research, no tech research, no X branch of tech research, etc. Bottom line so far is you can completely play the game with zero investment in the arcane research department, which is sad for a game called war of magic. Of course I realize spells and spell research will change with time and mods, still unfortunate cause you know, MAGIC. Anyway perhaps more surprisingly you can at present play the game with 0 investment in the Warfare branch of Tech (at least as Kingdom) by using Diplomacy only, it just costs a crap load lot of gold for the special units  you unlock. It would be nice if there were the same depth in the Arcane tree as there is in the Tech tree, again since it is called War of Magic. So far i've been unable to advance a game significantly where I intentionally ignore tech advancement; no tech research at present seems unfeasable except on tiny maps with zerg strategies.

More to come as I continue to play; one thing I'll say is this - playing Elemental feels like a new adventure; playing a certain other turn-based strategy game which game out recently feels like an old friend that you have realized you just don't have that much in common with anymore. Again, just saying. Love it, but need so much more...

Reply #5 Top

Yeah heh it is true, magic victory = conquest victory since you need t own the entire map to do it anyway.

Reply #6 Top

Unless there are 'fixed' shards to supplement the random ones. Current game I have two of all kinds, and three fire shards.

Reply #7 Top

My "can't lose" strategy is to just play the game.  I play on ridiculous every time and haven't lost yet.  I'm doing a bunch of random strategies, but the AI is just so bad it's hard to lose.  :-(

Reply #8 Top

just use the faction creator to make a custom faction with the "Master Archer" trait
End of quote

This is what I've been doing lately; this trait is currently broken and needs to be removed.  It enables you to put your early research into adventure/domination to gather gold from quest sites, and then funnel that cash directly into archers without ever having to invest a single tech in military.  The result is absurdly fast military units on the field that the enemy has no hope of beating. 

Reply #9 Top

Gyb,

Thanks for the diplomatic victory pointers, I linked to them at:

http://www.ultimateelemental.com/forums/10-strategy/26-v109-cant-miss-strategies.html

My personal favourite so far is to build up my sovereign through adventuring and then use him and a small band of heroes/summons as the main weapon of my armies.

 

Reply #10 Top

My favourite is the master quest one. It's seems the easiest and fastest way to win, or maybe because i like adventuring. I focus on getting sarog asap (usually turn 100-150), pump his atk with books and research haste spell as back up then focus on master quest research. If i'm lucky, i finish the game by about turn 250, or worst luck is about turn 350. Though i admit, the master quest victory is very luck dependant.

Reply #11 Top

Almost no matter what strategy you plan on doing, it starts with a rush of city making.  I know I have mentioned this in a couple other threads but I truly think it should be addressed.  On to the post.

Conquest---pretty fun, by far the most time consuming of the ones I have done.  Tracking down and killing all the Sovereigns can take some time depending on how many you start with.  The only strategty that seems to work is a complete city rush.  You have to get a really good base of cities quickly or you are just screwed.  Developing citites and tech is kind of irrelevant, you only need to go so far.  I won a medium game with 10 cities none of them even got to level three.  I ended up with 20 some cities because of the ones I captured.

Diplomatic--I actually just did this one.  it was pretty cool.  It was down to me (Capitar), the hated Tarth, and the Quendar.  The Tarth and I never got along from the start.  The Quendar took some time to get to like me, but they were by far the weakest on the map.  Since I was in a full fledged war with the Tarth, I paid quite a bit to get a peace treaty and non aggression pact going with Magnar III.  Soon after I married my son off.  Then a trade and tech treaty followed.  Finally an alliance was formed.  I was researching quite a bit from the tech agreement and my city research.  I was it perfect position with Quendar.  After a couple blood thirsty battles with Tarth, I caught Lady Irane by herself.  The second she was defeated the screen went into the diplomatic victory screen.  Pretty cool.

Master Quest--This one was the easiest so far.  Once I started the Master Quest it took about 5 minutes.  As mentioned I had the Sarog the Dragon, the rock slide summon, three casters, an archer squad and a spear squad.  The area effect spells easily defeated the monster groups. One of the Dragon's special abilities does like 120 damage.  it was a one shot on anything.  The pieces of the forge were pretty easy to get to since all of them were within my territory, and the teleport spell made quick work of that distance.  I actualy was a little disappointed in the ease of beating this one.

Spell of Making---haven't done this one, not sure what I even have to do to complete it.

 

I would really like to see a High Score screen divided up by the type of victory you are doing.  The conquest does seem to get you the highest scores.

Reply #12 Top

Quoting KingHobbit, reply 11
Spell of Making---haven't done this one, not sure what I even have to do to complete it.
End of KingHobbit's quote

It is the most straight forward after conquest. Research the "Master Spellbook" under the magic tech tree, get up to 10th level spell, research the "Spell of Making", and gain one of each type of shard (required to cast), and cast it.

Reply #13 Top

Quoting Gwenio1, reply 12

It is the most straight forward after conquest. Research the "Master Spellbook" under the magic tech tree, get up to 10th level spell, research the "Spell of Making", and gain one of each type of shard (required to cast), and cast it.
End of Gwenio1's quote

Thanks, I will have to give that one a try.

Reply #14 Top

Get the Ivo map downloaded and fix the bit about player one starting with too much preplaced stuff. Otherwise it is a good map for trying to cast the spell of making with extra shards.

Reply #15 Top

Quoting Gyb, reply 4

I've been trying to explore alternative strategies, as that is what I think will give Elemental the best "legs" (as in, the same reason I still play MoM 16 years later). Tried doing things like play a game and do no arcane research, no tech research, no X branch of tech research, etc. Bottom line so far is you can completely play the game with zero investment in the arcane research department, which is sad for a game called war of magic. Of course I realize spells and spell research will change with time and mods, still unfortunate cause you know, MAGIC. Anyway perhaps more surprisingly you can at present play the game with 0 investment in the Warfare branch of Tech (at least as Kingdom) by using Diplomacy only, it just costs a crap load lot of gold for the special units  you unlock. It would be nice if there were the same depth in the Arcane tree as there is in the Tech tree, again since it is called War of Magic. So far i've been unable to advance a game significantly where I intentionally ignore tech advancement; no tech research at present seems unfeasable except on tiny maps with zerg strategies.
End of Gyb's quote

 

I would actually list this as a plus. If you can still find successful strategies when neglecting one main progress aspect, then it shows a great diversity in the game that will allow for a lot of replay. On the other hand, if the success is chiefly due to the A.I not being very challenging or not adapting, then that is another matter.

 

Reply #16 Top



Diplomatic Victory:

This is actually pretty darn easy. I would rate it as easier than conquest victory because you don't have to bother with hunting down all the AI Sovereigns. Play as Kingdom. Make sure "Treaties" in the Diplomacy tree is the first or at least one of the first technologies you research. Also make sure you build one observer ASAP in each city you found. When you first meet an AI, on that very turn if possible, sign a treaty with them. Non-aggression, tech, money doesn't matter (personally I do all of them if I can). The trick here is getting the treaty signed early so they don't have time to form an opinion about you. Having just one observer in each city will, shockingly, put you in the "your military is stronger than mine" category for quite awhile, so getting the treaty signed shouldn't cost you more than 10-30 gold. As long as you have that one treaty going you will never slip below "warm" as long as you keep your military relatively equal - and again, you can do this by just cranking out cheap units with an attack rating - no one is ever going to attack you so actual combat effectiveness doesn't matter. As soon as you start having children grow up marry them off. Your goal is to get at least one child married to every other faction. Once that is accomplished you are set, the only question is how long it takes you to raise the obscene amount of gold each faction will want to sign the alliance treaty. The game does raise the "base cost" of treaties based on how many you already have active, so expect to pay out the nose for the last few.


End of quote

 

Except it didn't work when I tried it :).  Medium map, four AI.  The first three were on my west, south and east borders right from the get go.  Seeing how treaties was the first tech I researched, I did as you suggested.  I also put observers in all of my cities.  The moment the treaties had expired, all three AI declared war on me.  I was forced to wipe two of them out, and was working on the third when the game crashed big time. At which point I decided to reboot and try a  new game. I'll try for a dipolmatic victory next game. I've just won my second game (master quest) which was a lot of fun.

 

 

Reply #17 Top

Quoting Gwenio1, reply 14
Get the Ivo map downloaded and fix the bit about player one starting with too much preplaced stuff. Otherwise it is a good map for trying to cast the spell of making with extra shards.
End of Gwenio1's quote

How exactly do I fix that map?  I've never edited maps for Elemental so I'm a complete newbie when it comes to doing so :).

 

Cheers,

 

Raven

Reply #18 Top

Quoting Raven-sb, reply 17


How exactly do I fix that map?  I've never edited maps for Elemental so I'm a complete newbie when it comes to doing so .

 

Cheers,

 

Raven
End of Raven-sb's quote

From the main menu, click workshop, then cartographer's table. Click cancel on the dialog that pops up. Load the map, and all the tools you need are reached through the button on the left with the red crystal on it (particularly the deletetion tool).

Reply #19 Top

Quoting Gwenio1, reply 18

Quoting Raven-sb, reply 17

How exactly do I fix that map?  I've never edited maps for Elemental so I'm a complete newbie when it comes to doing so .

 

Cheers,

 

Raven

From the main menu, click workshop, then cartographer's table. Click cancel on the dialog that pops up. Load the map, and all the tools you need are reached through the button on the left with the red crystal on it (particularly the deletetion tool).
End of Gwenio1's quote

 

Thank you Gwenio :), doing so now.

 

Regards,

 

Raven

Reply #20 Top

Quoting KingHobbit, reply 11
Almost no matter what strategy you plan on doing, it starts with a rush of city making.  I know I have mentioned this in a couple other threads but I truly think it should be addressed.
End of KingHobbit's quote

I think the city rush is not needed, because i have won multiple times with only 2 well placed cities. The cities are very easy to defend, because the AI players have only two points where they can attack and as soon an AI player attacks with a Sovereign he is killed. After a few AI players are dead the other cities can be attacked and razed.

Reply #21 Top

Except it didn't work when I tried it :) .  Medium map, four AI.  The first three were on my west, south and east borders right from the get go.  Seeing how treaties was the first tech I researched, I did as you suggested.  I also put observers in all of my cities.  The moment the treaties had expired, all three AI declared war on me.  I was forced to wipe two of them out, and was working on the third when the game crashed big time. At which point I decided to reboot and try a  new game. I'll try for a dipolmatic victory next game. I've just won my second game (master quest) which was a lot of fun.
End of quote

I had the same thing happen to me over the weekend. I think what is happening is because we were so close on the map the AI ramped up its military production faster than normal and outpaced my observers. There is also some behind-the-scenes logic about when treaties expire I haven't figured out yet; with empires that are weaker than me the tech and trade treaties seem to NEVER expire, but with a militarily powerful AI it will "expire" then next turn they declare war. You get the message the treaty has expired one turn, then they declare war the next turn, so it doesn't seem like the treaties cancel because of the war declaration. It is as if the AI has the option every X turns to renew a tech/trade treaty, while the human player has no such option (or if there is a way for the player to cancel other than declaring war I haven't found it). Of course the non-agg pacts last 99 turns as stated in game, but I've moved away from those since it gets annoying having the AI grabbing goodie huts in my territory.