[WIP] Elf Tech Tree / Pre-made Units

from Elemental Forums

Hi Guys, I love the Community Project Elf Race ( https://forums.elementalgame.com/396640 ) which inspired me to make a custom Tech Tree and custom Units for Elves, however, I want lots of input into what people think is Elvish Tech, and what kind of units we should have. I'll list some of my thoughts:

Outline:

I prefer pre-made units with maybe 'some' customization over completely free-hand unit creation. I also want to see special units that are not necessarily all human. My idea of elves is strongly influenced by the Elves in the Riftwar Saga by Raymond E. Feist. While I don't necessarily need to have them living in a tree city, as they do in that book series, I want to somewhat model them according to the fight scene that occurred when the Tsurani attacked them with the help of their Black Robes, and the Elves defended themselves with the help of Macros the Black (which would be a Champion Sorcerer in the game).

 I basically see them as very intelligent spell weavers and rangers, that fight very stealthy and utilize both flora and fauna to defend themselves. Units should generally be small (in numbers) compared to human troops, and should predominantly utilize bows. Unmounted elvish troops should be just a bit slower than mounted human troops, and mounted elvish troops should be very rare.

Tech Tree

Modifications to the tech trees:

Civilization:

No ideas yet

 

Warfare:

I want to take away all the techs that give weapons and armor, thus essentially turning off free-hand unit creation.

I will add:

  • Offensive
    • This sub-tree will add several offensive units, some of which will require specialized buildings to be produced
  • Defensive
    • This sub-tree will add several defensive units, some of which will require specialized buildings to be produced
  • Armor
    • This line will contain upgrades to ALL units armor - each time you research this ALL units will receive a certain %modifier to their defensive strength, this will improve all current and future units (Think along the lines of tech upgrades in RTS games).
    • This line might also contain special abilities that can be added to FUTURE units through customization (Special abilities will not work retroactively).
  • Weapons
    • This line will contain upgrades to ALL units weapons- each time you research this ALL units will receive a certain %modifier to their attack strength, this will improve all current and future units (Think along the lines of tech upgrades in RTS games).
    • This line might also contain special abilities that can be added to FUTURE units through customization (Special abilities will not work retroactively).
  • Tactics & Logistics
    • This line will contain upgrades to ALL units movement, and combat speed.
    • This line might also contain special abilities that can be added to FUTURE units through customization (Special abilities will not work retroactively).

Magic:

I was considering adding research for a special spellbook (or series of spellbooks) that add spells specific to elvish races. We could add several books named (e.g.) Spellweaving I, Spellweaving II, Spellweaving III, that each add progressively higher level spells.

Think MoM, in which the first book gave a few level 1 spells, a couple level 2, and maybe one level 3 spell - the second book would add a few spells to each of those levels, then add a level 4 spell, the third book might add a few more of the preceding, and then add a random level 5 spell.

I also want to add a tree that lets us build spellweaver units. There could be both offensive and defensive spellweavers (offensive ones would cast spells such as roots, bee swarms, bird attacks, etc.; defensive ones would cast spells such as heal, earthshield, gust of wind, etc.). These units would require special improvements to be unlocked on a per-city basis.

Adventure:

Maybe a tree with unit customizations that add stealth/movement related perks for future units.

Diplomacy:

Maybe a tree that lets us recruit animals to help fight - these should be unlocked through an improvement.

 

Custom Units

Not sure yet, please post some ideas. My suggestion would be to think along the lines of Stealth, Bows, Rangers, Animals, and Nature magic.

Feel free to add ideas as to attack, defense, movement speed, etc. We will obviously have to fine-tune that as combat changes roll out.

9,657 views 12 replies
Reply #1 from Elemental Forums Top

So much of what you have suggested sounds really good.  I like it!  Well thought out.  The only concern I would have is the auto updating of units - and not allowing each user to decide how to armor  /equip /etc. each unit.  This seems to be a key part o9f your plan.  Please help me understand what is the (are the) concept(s) idea(s) behind this auto upgrade decision?  What are the trade offs, as you see it?

 

I love the idea of elves...

Reply #2 from Elemental Forums Top

Currently, as the game progresses you will see a lot of units that have different names, but are all essentially the same. It doesn't matter what your race is, it doesn't matter how many other players are in the game.

By limiting customization, and instead pre-designing units, I can give each race a different flavor. I will still allow customization (special abilities, health packs, etc.), but the basic unit type will be set.

For example:

Elves would be full of Ranger/Archer/Spellweaver type units that have fewer individual unit-members, but high combat strength per person.

Orcs would be full of axe-bearing, high-health, in-your-face units with many individuals per unit.

Undead might come with very cheap zombie units that have no real weapons or armor, but spread diseases and are hard to kill. They could also come with vampire or wraith units that add their own flavor.

 

Now, initially having only one race with pre-made units might be a bit weird, but if you were to play with several custom races, that all bring in their own units - that's flavor. Of course they would all have to be balanced around each other ... that's where it becomes difficult.

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Reply #3 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Malloreon, reply 2
Now, initially having only one race with pre-made units might be a bit weird, but if you were to play with several custom races, that all bring in their own units - that's flavor. Of course they would all have to be balanced around each other ... that's where it becomes difficult.
End of Malloreon's quote

 

Yep, I was reading your idea but I read all over the forum that Archer unit are too strong because then can hit long range with no penalty. So, it make me wonder if all of your unit will have long range "attack power", what will be their weakness?

Reply #4 from Elemental Forums Top

I was reading big squads of Lord Hammer teams were too strong. The main problem I read about related to Archer units was that there is a bug causing ranged attacks to always deal max damage. Of course that would have to be fixed.

Ranged attack power on these units would have to be balanced by decreased survivability (health, defense, lower #of party members per unit) and enemy units that have ways to live long enough to get into range (which isn't hard when the archery bug is fixed).

 

On a related note, while I would say that elves probably have a penchant for using archery, they would also field units that do not use ranged combat. I can imagine them with two sleek, long blades, darting in and out of the shadows in the forest. I can imagine enraged bears that charge into enemy ranks. I can imagine Elven Spellweavers that hurl boulders, create sinkholes, or summon swarms of bees.

Reply #5 from Elemental Forums Top

So if I understand correctly (I'll buy the game tommorow so pardon my ignorance) if you have a squad/compagny of soldier with plate/shield and lord hammer it should'nt be too powerfull to have only ranged attack?

Reply #6 from Elemental Forums Top

Is there any way to have different unit 'Chassis' and then have a limited selection of weapons and armor that you can assign to each 'chassis'? So like an archer that has different stats than a warrior and different chassis for each race. But then the warrior has a choice of 4 bows and 2 armors (some of which are unlocked by tech). Also the warrior chassis could have 6 possible weapons and 5 armors. And there could be 4 or 5 accessories that are universal to any unit. Would that work? Is it possible?

Reply #7 from Elemental Forums Top

I like that idea, not sure if thats possible, but definitely worth looking into.

Reply #8 from Elemental Forums Top

Because then you could give races weaker and stronger chassis for types of units. Like elves could have superior archer bases and their warrior bases would be moderate in strength. Orc bases for example would have overall inferior archers but they might have higher strength archers than the elves but far inferior accuracy and the orcs could have a special beserker base or something that gives higher strength but can't dodge.

Reply #9 from Elemental Forums Top

Yes, that is entirely possible. You can design any unit you want, then have it show up as a pre-designed option (like peasant/pioneer) when designing a unit. You can limit each unit's weapon selection by using a series of modeltypes.

So you could have one unit called brawler that has higher health, but lower movement. Or you could have one unit called assassin with high movement, which has a series of poisons available to choose from, and even has a 20% dodge, but he has much less health.

The only downside is if the user deletes one of the "original" units, they're gone for that user, and I'm not sure how to get them back.

 

Reply #10 from Elemental Forums Top

Heaven, do you know a tag I could put into the original unit, which I can then use as a <PreReq> in different weapons?

For example, all my Swordmasters would get the tag 'Malloreon-Elven-Swordmaster' now I would put

<PreReq>

</UnitType>Malloreon-Elven-Swordmaster>

</PreReq>

into several different equipment files to limit options.

Reply #11 from Elemental Forums Top

Oh, I remember the game not letting me delete Peasant units back in the day - so maybe there is a tag that lets us prevent users from accidentally deleting these required units.

Reply #12 from Elemental Forums Top

Items are filtered through what modeltypes they support. If you want a swordmaster type unit that can only use swords, all you need to do is give him a unique modeltype, and then enable only that modeltype for your awesome swords.