(PS: You can have a "battle mode" for multiplayer, like in "Heroes of Might & magic 5", where you can create a battle and just play that one on the tactical map. But the epic strategic  game can only be done by email!!! (to add a personal note Age of Wonder Shadow Magic by email is the most fun I have ever had with videogames, one has truly the impression of an epic game when playing a map one hour a day every day for a year)

I believe the MP is simultaneous movement w/ countdown clock. So, while Stardock is putting options for a longer time clock, you'd never convince me to play an opponent that thought he needed an hour a turn.  I think of it like Rome - you've made your empire so large, you have to choose what to micromanage wisely and eventually, you will begin to see corruption and crumbling within the empire.

I read through my post again... and see nothing where one could ever conclude such a thing.  I pointed out that in Elemental, you would never be sitting there for an hour because of the way Stardock designed MP:  simultaneous + countdown clocks (ie:  speed chess).

I have played epic games of Age of Wonders: SM.... as a SP.  I've recently just re-installed the first to give it a whirl again.  But sitting in a room, waiting for a person to take an hour just so he could micromanage every city he owned and click on every army he could possible touch.... wouldn't happen.  Ever.  It be like playing chess with someone who takes 10+ minutes to think of his next move.

Simultaneous turns + countdown clocks require the players to quickly consider their options, and more importantly, realize that part of their Empire may well not be managed as efficiently as they would like (much like a real life empire that spreads well beyond the control of its territorial armies).

This is not to say that if Stardock could implement Play by email without wasting resources that need to go to other areas, then by all means, Stardock should do it.  But... if I was given a choice between fixing the AI, adding more spells, more balancing, individual tech trees, better diplomacy, better tactical battles, and play-by-email, I'd choose all the others first. 4X games are meant first as solo affairs - we like large, vast empires with our fingers in every possible decision... but when I think about sitting in a room with my friends, I'd rather break out some dice and slay monsters on a D&D quest than watch 1 guy take an hour turn.

Even with simultaneous turns you will never manage to get people to sit there, on an Epic TBS game, when they start losing. It just doesn't happen: too time consuming, too much work involved. PBEM on the other hand allowed me to carry through 'almost' all games. And I am not an isolated case, go see the AOW heaven's forum!

I have played AOWSM since the day it came out in 2003, before I played its 2 predecessors AOWTWT and of course the first one, AOW1, also from the day they come out. The time one takes to play a turn largely depends on the size of the map, but I can assure you than after turn 50 on a XL map turns always take more than an hour to play (for the winning side that is...)

multiplayer CAN work in this game, if you approach it right.  you have to know what people want.  example:  people that play with friends tend to want to play co-op against very tough AI's in long games that can be saved.  people that want to play competitively want quick games where they can come at odd angles toward their opponents, just like chess.  you have to open your imagination.  nobody knew what the wheel was before it was invented and then every body facepalmed.

Yeah, but that sound like "casual gaming" which is perfectly fine but I doubt you'll ever finish a map doing like that. In this game around turn 100 turns start to get long, not an hour yet, that happens later... What I am trying to say is that you guys are probably going to be... ehm... drunk before the game ends, in other words you are probably not going to finish the game, the loser will quit long before that.

The single player experience is great until one learns all the tricks to exploit the AI, after that the game is old. As I already said Age of Wonders Shadow Magic instead is alive and well after 7 years because of "Play By EMail".

no, i only refer to quick games for people that play with strangers.  you can be plenty competitive when playing against friends that you know will keep coming back to play a big game. i think especially more so on games that take a long time to play, you don't want to spend 6 months on a game only to lose!

edit: yeah i looked back at my post, i didn't make it clear enough(or at all it would seem lol) that i meant people who play with strangers want to play fast games.

Games with strangers can work, if you find the right ones. If you want to see how it works out, stop by http://aow.heavengames.com/cgi-bin/forums/display.cgi?action=t&fn=25

I've played them all too, and I think you're talking nonsense. The only time I could get a turn anywhere near that long is when it had multiple (ie: 5) tactical combats in it. That just doesn't happen that often, and the average turn length is FAR shorter.

Just like the guy who thinks a real game of Civ takes 72 hours, you're exaggerating. It only takes that long if you're doing it really slowly.

I just played a turn in a PBEM game that is in the mid-game stage, and it took 40 minutes. As near as I can tell it was about average length for that particular game for me, and the time is likely to increase as the game progress if I continue to expand my control. So yes, an hour is not an unreasonable time for large scale games of Age of Wonders: Shadow Magic. All turns will not be that long, but there will be enough that if one is lossing they will not want to sit through the turns of the player that is winning.

I really do pray we receive  HotSeat   and  PBEM   for  Elemental.

Problem is you totally discount those of us who like to play a game with roommates or friends etc just to have fun. Not every game has to be a deathmatch competition. Those of us who want a MP clone of SP are mainly in this catagory.. PBEM would be no different for us than just playing it together other than the added wait of sending each other our moves after each turn... Why everyone insists that everyone who plays multiplayer does so in a competitive way is beyond me. Is someone playing a game to have fun instead of to just to win that rare?

At this point me and my roommate are limited to civ IV, freelancer , NWN2 and Sacred 2 for games we can play that aren't just deathmatch mode. I don't get why the majority of games only support the deathmatch mode gameplay style..