Elemental, reclaiming the wilds...

After playing a couple of games I can't help but get the feeling the world as it is is very empty, I mean, this is fine with a game like Civ or similar, but here the lore gave us an excellent opportunity to populate it with all sorts of interesting stuff...

About a century ago all civilizations crumbled and we are left with, what, nothing?  Not really, all the monsters, brigands and what not took advantage of that and literally populated everything, claiming the land, resources, ancient temples, ruins and the like...  

 

So does all this affect our little sovereign, well, in order to bring civilization back, he has to fight wilds back, either with swords, magic or perhaps diplomacy...

 

So at the beginning only his inmediate area and the very first patch of fertile land would be free, all the rest would be occupied by lairs of brigands, monsters, ghosts, etc...

 

In this system there could be several types of lairs:

 

Resources lair:  A gold mine claimed by brigands, etc etc...  the player has to defeat them in order to be able to construct on it...  they could ocasionally spam monsters as well...

 

Land lairs, same as before but more powerful version, they would be there to prevent expansion unless removed...  Inicially though, they would be dormant, meaning that the monsters, after having had fun for 100 years are now happily spending their time in their caves counting their treasures...  

Dormant means they would just spawn a weak roamer with a specific area of influence...  no cities could be placed within a short range of them (after all, who would go live next to a troll lair?)

 

These lairs would become active though, when a city is within a certain range (bigger than the previous one)...  This could simulate the monsters becoming aware of the new threat and reacting to it by spawming a much more dangerouos creature that would try to actively destroy the city in question, having done that they would return to a dormant state...

The player would have to deal with them by, well, destroying them outright and thus pacifying the area...  Now adventure tech could come into play, by having certain types of lairs require an increasingly amount of tech requirements before the player can venture forth and destroy them...  this could simulate things from basic dungeon exploring to specific research to break the wards of an ancient temple or ruin...  (this could also be aplied to resource lairs)...  

Another option in dealing with them could be a diplomacy tree (I guess this would only apply to empires for the moment) in which after having researched a certain amount the player could have the option of making a pact with the creatures (maybe through a quest, payment upfront or over time, etc) and pacify the area as well as gain new recluitment options...  This could be a creature or a new type of soldier you could outfit, within restrictions of course...   In the case of resource lairs the player would have to choose between getting the resource by destroying the lair or getting new recluitment options...

 

Last but not the last these lairs should have an incremental amount of goodies, ranging from gold, artifacts, spells, etc...

 

Please feel free to say what you like or not about this idea, etc.  I think it could add nice amount of flavor to the early game (and prevent city spamming in the process)...

 

7,056 views 7 replies
Reply #1 Top

Having monsters spawn from lairs and not thin air would be nice. It'd allow for situations where you could control the unclaimed hinterlands between two empires without it being a pure monster-infested mess.

 

Making lairs both spawn monsters and being tied to items or resources/improvements would also make the game more dynamic and give a purpose to the adventuring mechanic.

 

Your sovereign will want to clear out the mine, because it'll prevent the brigands from spawning in the area between territory zones where your caravans move. Then you can claim the mine once it's in your territory.

 

Completely random monster spawns (the default right now) I'd only have happen in unclaimed territory within the fog of war, and rather rare still.

 

I also like the diplomacy option. Especially with say Dragons or Demons who you might bribe with gold to attack another nation, etc.

Reply #3 Top

Quoting StevenAus, reply 2
I really like the ideas in this thread.

Best regards,
Steven. 
End of StevenAus's quote
What the reasonable and polite Mr. StevenAus said!

Reply #4 Top

Some great ideas.  I'd like to see some more of a Keep on the Borderlands vibe (AD&D module), particularly in the early game, with more depth to wilderness encounters in the early game.  Having people tell you about those sorts of "quests" mentioned above would be like adventuring tech level 0.  Additionally, for adventuring, if one goes that route, I would like to see the ability of a sovereing and party to sneak across the borders of other realms and move about in an unnoticed way, both using that as espionage, but also being able to claim adventuring quests and goodies elsewhere on the map in case your kingdom happens to be small or choked off.

Reply #5 Top

Quoting Fearzone, reply 4
Some great ideas.  I'd like to see some more of a Keep on the Borderlands vibe (AD&D module), particularly in the early game, with more depth to wilderness encounters in the early game.  Having people tell you about those sorts of "quests" mentioned above would be like adventuring tech level 0.  Additionally, for adventuring, if one goes that route, I would like to see the ability of a sovereing and party to sneak across the borders of other realms and move about in an unnoticed way, both using that as espionage, but also being able to claim adventuring quests and goodies elsewhere on the map in case your kingdom happens to be small or choked off.
End of Fearzone's quote

 

I've been wanting this as well. The current treaty system is so restrictive. I have mentioned the idea of 'Adventuring Parties' in other threads that are made of Champions and possibly individual 'henchmen' units. These would be the only groups that could enter dungeons and other quest locations. We could treat adventuring parties / individuals the same way we do caravans, where they are free to cross borders and explore. This would really open up the gameworld and allow for the adventuring system to really grow, while keeping you from sending entire armies into the lands of others. Really, we need several new treatires...Non-Aggression should be just that...a non-aggression pact to prevent war with a serious relations hit for breaking it. A Trade or Open Borders Treaty will give some automatic gilder and allow for caravans and adventuring parties to pass through. A Right of Passage treaty would allow military units to pass through so that your armies could attack a distant enemy empire.

 

This could lead to some awesome quests...for example, your adventuring party could travel to an Empire's lands and engage in quests that are tied to that Empire, ie: engage in some Robin Hood style quests against a tyrant. Would be a cool way to engage with other empires without total war.

Reply #6 Top

In general I get no "reclaim or revive the land" feeling from Elemental in its current form. It feels like any non-space 4x game. Expand your civilization by founding new cities and the influence of these cities will keep monsters at bay. A game concept that could be already observed in CIVILIZATION ... no number needed. It's the first one.

I even liked Stardocks initial idea, that you had to spend some essence to found another city (beta 3?). That felt at least a tiny bit like there is acutally some reclaiming / reviving done. And there are so many more possibilities to expand on this idea. Like e.g.

 

Magically altering the landscape - Make the sovereign actively involved in the expansion progress. Have him cast revive or reclaim like types of spells (maybe with upkeep) to be able to settle new regions or make resources ready for exploitation. Right now, your sovereign does not feel special. There is absolutely no representation of his "revive the land" agenda in the gameplay ... apart from the automatic change in the coloration of the tiles within your zone of influence. *sigh*

Have your subjects work - Here I get the basic idea from a very old game called Dune, based on a novel by Frank Herbert of the same name. And no, not Westwood's C&C predecessor and RTS-game Dune II. In Dune you had to terraform Arrakis by sending out terraforming crews. Here is how the Wikipedia describes the ecology aspect of this game, commented a bit for easier understanding:

Ecology

As soon as Paul meets Liet-Kynes and drinks the Water of Life, Arrakis can be terraformed by having Fremen [i.e. the player's] troops specialise in ecology. Since it only happens late in the game, the northern sietches [i.e. map regions] are usually barren (but any spice [i.e. the game's source of income ... as tiberium in C&C] remaining will disappear), and by moving ecology troops there, they can assemble a windtrap, and provided they are equipped with bulbs, vegetation will always grow to the north.

Vegetation raises the morale of Fremen. In addition, planting the vegetation south to the Harkonnen [i.e. the AI opponent] controlled areas, so it will grow north and reaches them, will lower their spice production [i.e. their income base]. Moreover, if enough vegetation grows north into Harkonnen fortresses, they will abandon them. A military unit must still be sent then to take over such fortresses, but there will be no one to fight with.

Nevertheless, it is generally agreed amongst players that ecology is of a lower priority than both spice mining and military, hence most players tend to deploy lesser amount of troops to ecology. However, by having enough vegetation growing north into the Harkonnen Palace, ecology is actually one of the ways to reach the end game.

 

In summary there needs to be more to reclaiming and reviving than just different graphics that are automatically applied.

Rabenhoff

Reply #7 Top

Well, in the campaign there were lairs.  SPiders had them.  Darklings had them.  Wargs/wolves too.

 

They need to recreate that.  The people of the wilds need ot have their own cities/encampements.  Only creatues that should spawn out of thin blue air are the elementals and demonds.