Weapon and Armor Costs - A question to the Experts

What do you think would be the implications of changing the guildar values to reflect the bonus infered to these items?

For example, looking through CoreArmor and CoreWeapons, the costs for various things seem a bit random. Additionally, the high costs of these items generally means that you cant easily buy then particularly in the early mid game.

For example, Cloth Helmets cost 20G for 1 Def, Cloth Greaves cost 30g for 1? Why?

Why not have Cost = Def x 10

So all def 2 items cost 20 guildar, def 3 = 30g for example.

Similarly, Weapons

A Warhammer cost 250g for 5 att.

A Dagger costs 70g for 3 att.

Big difference - why not Cost = att x 10

Again, it will make using these items more likely due to affordability + the scale of damage V's cost will uniform.

My question is before i begin changing all the values, What are some of the likely implications of these changes?

I'm thinking

1. Will be more likely to out fit my heros + they will be more competitive.

2. Defence may become to overpowered due to cumulative effect of various items.

Any other thoughts? A comprehensive recosting of all items could be a worth while endevour...

10,087 views 13 replies
Reply #1 Top

I added a 10% increased cost each 5 atk/def, but otherwise did the exact same thing as a personal mod.

Reply #2 Top

Does it make equiping heros more fun and affordable? Do heros become more competitive and last abit longer?

Reply #3 Top

weapons already seem to overpower defense, so i wouldn't worry about that. but i did lower most store costs, of weps/armor and left the unit costs the same

Reply #4 Top

I'm still tweaking, no in-depth tests, but I'm also trying to lower a bit the cost of unit armors. As Eviliron pointed they seem to be overpowered by weapons.

Reply #5 Top

Here is a quick sweep through CoreWeapons and the attack and cost of each item. Next to it is the new proposed cost:

Weapons (att)Old$, New$

Gnarled Club   (2)   40, 20  
staff               (3)   90, 30 

war staff          (4)  95,  40  
war hammer     (5)  250, 50  
battlehammer    (8) 640, 80 8 
Lord Hammer    (12)1440, 120 
Mace                (6) 360, 60 
Axe                  (4) 160, 40
Battle Axe          (5) 250, 50 
Wood Spear1     (4) 160, 40 
Boar spear         (4) 160, 40  
Cedar Short Bow  (3) 100, 30  
Cedar Long Bow   (5)250, 50 
Dagger               (3) 70, 30 
Short Sword        (4) 300, 40
Broad Sword        (5)500,  50

Long Sword   (10)1000,  100
Fang Dagger  (3) 90,  30 
Imperial Short sword  (4) 320,  40 
Scimitar  (6) 700,  60 
Scythe    (8) 1200,  80 
Trog Scimitar  (10)1800,  100 
Great Scimitar  (14) 2800,  140 
Claymore  (14) 3000,  140
Karrazan  (12) 4000,  120
ElementiumKarrazan  (12) 12000,  120 

Some outrageous costs for some of these items...

Would the new price proposals be acceptable? or have i missed something?

Reply #6 Top

The prices in CoreArmor and the proposed changes

Name (def)$old, $new

Armor Human Armarian   
Cloth Helmet   (1)20 10
Cloth Armlets   (1)20 10
Cloth Greaves   (1)30 10
Cloth Breastplate  (3)30 30

Leather helm   (2)35 20
Leather shirt   (2)25 20
Leather Breast plate  (4)35 40
Leather Armlets   (2)35 20
Leather Greaves   (2)35 20

Light Armor    
Lightplate helm   (3)70 30
chainmale shirt   (4)70 40
LightPlateBreastpiece  (5)70 50
LightPlate Armlets  (3)70 30
LightPlateGreaves  (3)70 30

HeavyPlateHelm   (4)90 40
ScaleMaleShirt   (6)90 60
HEavyBreastPiece  (8)90 80
HeavyPlateArmlets  (4)90 40
HeavyPlateGreaves  (4)90 40

MasterLightPlateHelm  (8)100 80
MLPBReastPiece   (10)100 100
MLPArmlets   (8)100 80
MLPGreaves   (8)100 80

MasterHeavyPlateHelm  (10)110 100
MHPBreastPiece   (16)110 160
MHPArmlets   (10)110 100
MHPGreaves   (10)110 100

LegendaryPlateHelm  (8)100 80
LegendaryPBreastPiece  (12)195 120
LPGreaves   (9)170 90

FALLEN BODY ARMOR    

TrogClothHelm   (1)20 10
TGArmlets   (1)20 10
TGGreaves   (1)30 10
TGBreastpiece   (2)30 20

FallenLeatherHelm  (1)35 10
FLeatherShirt   (1)25 10
FLBreastpiece   (2)35 20
FLArmlets   (1)35 10
FLGreaves   (1)35 10

FallenLightPlateHelm  (3)70 30
FallenChainmaleShirt  (4)70 40
FLPBreastpiece   (5)70 50
FLPArmlets   (3)70 30
FLPGreaves   (3)70 30

FallenHeavyPlateHelmet  (4)90 40
FallenScaleMaleShirt  (6)90 60
FHPBreastpiece   (8)90 80
FHPArmlets   (4)90 40
FHPGreaves   (4)90 40

FallenMasterLightPLateHelm (8)100 80
FMLPBreastpiece   (10)100 100
FMLPArmlets   (8)100 80
FMLPGreaves   (8)100 80

FallenMasterHeavyPlateHelm (10)110 100
FMHPBreastpiece   (16)600 160
FMHPArmlets   (10)110 100
FMHPGreaves   (10)110 100

FallenLegendaryPlateHelm (8)100 80
FLPBreastpeice   (12)195 120
FLPGreaves   (9)170 90

Shared Gear    
Kiteshield   (1)50 10
HeavyShield   (2)50 20
MetalShield   (3)50 30
HeavySteelShield  (4)50 40
MasterHeavyShield  (10)50 100
LegendarySteelShield  (10)50 10

I'll look in CoreAccessories next and see what we have.

If anyone has opinions on how they think these numbers could be better balanced, put it out there for discussion. Maybe we could work towards a general balance mod.

Reply #7 Top

I would say the weapons should have diminishing returns.

 

maybe a simple scaling.

1 = 10g

2 = 10g + 20g = 30g

3 = 30g +30g = 60g

4 = 60g + 40g = 100g

5 = 100g + 50g = 150g

6 = 150g + 60g = 210g

7 = 210g + 70g = 280g

8 = 280g + 80g = 360g

9 = 360g + 90g = 450g

10 = 450g + 100g = 550g

 

Reply #8 Top

a quick suggestion, 1.08 changed the way the shop works, maybe check it out first?

Reply #9 Top

Quoting EviliroN, reply 8
a quick suggestion, 1.08 changed the way the shop works, maybe check it out first?
End of EviliroN's quote

 

Indeed it has... Any idea where to find the new values that influence shop prices?

Reply #10 Top

Quoting TarrasQ, reply 7
I would say the weapons should have diminishing returns.

 

maybe a simple scaling.

1 = 10g

2 = 10g + 20g = 30g

3 = 30g +30g = 60g

4 = 60g + 40g = 100g

5 = 100g + 50g = 150g

6 = 150g + 60g = 210g

7 = 210g + 70g = 280g

8 = 280g + 80g = 360g

9 = 360g + 90g = 450g

10 = 450g + 100g = 550g

 
End of TarrasQ's quote

 

I suppose the only problem is there is that armor values seem to be easier to increase than attack values

Reply #11 Top

I think weapons should be valued based on tech level and materials they are made out of. I have also come to the conclusion that attack values should be changed to reflect this. Armor seems to stack and should probably be 1.5x more expensive as a weapon of the same class. Does anyone have a weapon mod that I can alter into what I propose? It would be nice to start with the values I see above.

Reply #12 Top

Supposedly the new shop values in-game are directly based on the bonuses of the item.

You can still use ShopValue to overwrite that.

Reply #13 Top

Well the balance I choose to uphold is wood-->Metal-->Refined Metal-->Magically Imbued Metal--> Magical Metal (may or may not be imbued)-->Legendary Artifacts. If the game comes standard with this mindset that is great. If not, I am happy to share. The prices should affect these milestones and each weapon at every milestone should allow drastically different strategies. I am not trying to say my version is better, but just look at all the duplicates and strategic simularity between the techs Equipment and Basic Weapons. There is little strategic change. In my briefly altered version I plan to make right now, weapons will have vast advantages. Axes can be thrown, arrows do more damage but are very unlikely to hit, daggers are very very fast, staves allow defense and dodge, shortswords are fast and lethal, hammers get a much higher penalty to moves and keep the ridiculous high attack, magic allows a break in the stalemates of heavy armor (true damage added to the weapons), legenadary weapons will take an army to claim but make you unstoppable. I generally think that regular armies should stalemate at a certain point to force players and AI to pick a specific strategy to gain the advantage. Right now I beat them with small parties of staves.

I am hopeful though, that the next version will make the vanilla version a little more strategic. W00T global magic!