What should the sovereign be?

from Elemental Forums

According to the lore and the game concept, there are many different ways to represent the sovereign in the game.

All ways can be good, and all completely different:

 

1) Invisible ruler:

The sovereign will not exist as a unit in the game. Instead, he will be represented with a building in the capital city, effect the game with global spells and research.

This is done in the Civilization games, as well as MoM

 

2) "Weak" ruler.

The sovereign exists, but strong units and heroes can easily defeat him if he is not properly defended. He will rarely leave the first city and is not intended to wander around the world.

Unlike other units and heroes, the sovereign focuses on skills and spells that can be used even when he is not in the battle field.

For example, AoW SM

 

3) Utility hero

The sovereign is a unit that can properly defend himself if needed. However, his goal is not to fight, but to serve a unique purpose that only he can achieve. In this game, probably land revival.

 

4) Unique powerful hero

The sovereign is a unit that whenever someone sees him in the map the first reaction is "holy crap, a caster!". He is at least as strong as other heroes and units, with a unique ability that makes him a formidable foe.

He can be killed, but it will probably require a bigger than usual army to do so, or a special strategy.

Disciples more or less used this method.

 

 

What do you think is the best option for this game or for games in general?

 

 

elemental
9,405 views 12 replies
Reply #1 from Elemental Forums Top

in the Lore the Sov is the major part of the game, to make the Sov anything other than option 1 or 4 would take away from the gameplay. I vote option 4. and to make your Sov/caster unique, Imbue Champion should be limited, right now there is not big difference between your Sov and a caster champion.

Reply #2 from Elemental Forums Top

Or, they could do it like Dominions 3 and balance things to the point where all 4 are viable options depending on how you, the player, want to play. :)

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Reply #3 from Elemental Forums Top

I would love for Sovereigns some deep customization options. Then let me decide each game if I want an uber swordsman, a battle caster, an invisible mastermind buffing his kingdom or anything else...

 

edit: or what Alborelli said, sorry pal, I should read more before posting ;)

Reply #4 from Elemental Forums Top

1) Invisible ruler

I dislike this aspect in gaming. It's old, it's been done, and it can be boring. It's also unrealistic and uncreative. I believe that games used to do this because they didn't have the time, assets, or the design for how to successfully implement it.

I'd rather have someone represent the leader in my gameworld these days. I'd certainly like the possibility of having one.

I also enjoy the possibility and aspect of customizing my ruler in detail and then seeing him or her conducting the activities of leading the nation. This just isn't as meaningful without a visible ruler who is onscreen and under my control or interacting within the game.

Note: One of the expansions in Civ 3 allowed for a "Regicide" gamemodes which I felt were pretty interesting and more fun.

 

2) "Weak" ruler.

I don't like the idea of the sovereign being REALLY weak. It's sort of like a waste of the sovereign. Sovereigns should be versitile based on who they are. General-Sovereigns and Warrior-Sovereigns should be out in the gameworld doing things and defeating the enemies, not sitting inside a city. However, there should be a possibility of an Administrative-Sovereign who sits in the city and runs the nation better then others.

 

3) Utility hero

I like this one. However, it should be possible that the sovereign's goal is to fight if they are warriors, generals, or adventurers. A warrior may be like Ghangus Khan, General would be like Alexander the Great, and the Adventurer could be like... Captain Picard or Kirk, always running around and doing things, lol.

 

4) Unique powerful hero

I think most sovereigns should be more powerful then the average unit and they should certainly grow somewhat stronger over time.

Another note, the sovereigns should necessary have to be a caster. They could be great warriors, leaders, generals, adventurers, or administrators that all have some unique gameplay aspects and advantages.

 

Anyways, interesting topic. :)

Reply #5 from Elemental Forums Top

I think you should be able to customize your role using the RPG system.

You can split your points into your sovereign (also champions) among these general paths:

a) spell caster

b ) warrior (good at killing stuff)

c) military leader (gives a bonus to allied units in the same stack)

d) financial leader (gives a bonus to the city/resource he is standing in, maybe some smaller global bonuses)

e) explorer (bonus vs monsters, bonus to quest rewards)

d) other (assassinate units, steal technologies/spells/items/resources, bribe neutral/enemy units, reshape the land)

If you could focus your hero in one of these areas or split your focus and become a jack of all trades, it would make the sovereign a much more fun and important aspect of the game.

I would love to be able to start a new game and choose a different role depending on what my mood is, instead of always being a flimsy caster unit.

Reply #6 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting UmbralAngel, reply 5
I think you should be able to customize your role using the RPG system.

You can split your points into your sovereign (also champions) among these general paths:

a) spell caster

b ) warrior (good at killing stuff)

c) military leader (gives a bonus to allied units in the same stack)

d) financial leader (gives a bonus to the city/resource he is standing in, maybe some smaller global bonuses)

e) explorer (bonus vs monsters, bonus to quest rewards)

d) other (assassinate units, steal technologies/spells/items/resources, bribe neutral/enemy units, reshape the land)

If you could focus your hero in one of these areas or split your focus and become a jack of all trades, it would make the sovereign a much more fun and important aspect of the game.

I would love to be able to start a new game and choose a different role depending on what my mood is, instead of always being a flimsy caster unit.
End of UmbralAngel's quote

 

exactly the beauty of Dominions 3.. you can pretty much choose to be anything the game does.  In Elemental I can be a mage, or a mage with high Int, or a mage with high Int and Wis or a mage with 5 str.. or... or..  the more I play, the more I see Elemental is pathetically superficial.. but I still really believe it will get better.. starting with 1.1, but not until then.

Reply #7 from Elemental Forums Top

I definatly prefer the character that I created myself to be a useable hero. If there's one thing about Kings Bounty I don't like, it's that you have this shiny hero, but you can't use him in battle.

Reply #8 from Elemental Forums Top

I'm reposting my same reply from another topic.   I think the uniqueness of the game should revolve around essence, and essence should only be available for Sov.  Mana and Essence completely separate.   As an addition to the below post, I think Essence amount should be a game setting - all sov start with 0, 5, 10, 20, etc.   So the ability to make a godly light/godly heavy game since it would essentially be a finite resource.

 

Back when I heard of this game I thought the coolest feature was the sovereign - a badass with the capability to restore the land, you could walk the land as a wrecking crew or use your essence to improve the land and your kingdom.   The way it is now, he's just the first spell caster with the ability to grant others essence...whee.

 

IMO:

Sovereign should start the game out in mid game form.   Essentially a "god" compared to everything else - barring the other "gods" who so happen to have their own agendas.   At the start of the game they can move with impunity and take on large armies (of weak troops) single handedly - casting spells or laying about them with their weapon (depending on initial starting preferences...make them mean something!!!).   Essence would be limited, say 10-20 or so and very very difficult to recover.   The essence is the source of their power (i.e. 1 essence = 3 in every stat or 1 essence = 3-5 stat pts that can be configured) (possibly also tie into spell availability (or stat based spells) and spell/weapon damage).   Once essence is spent, it reduces their power...and when 0 - they die.

Essence would then become the most important feature in the game, or at least the most game changing.  The use of and permanent loss of becomes a continuous strategic decision - stay strong, or weaken self to make empire strong.

The primary/necessary use of essence would be to enliven the land - create bounty where desolation exists.  Get rid of the initial free food resources, keep most of the food technologies.   Make finding grassland or a food resource a rare event.  Go back to the idea that food is needed to grow, but cities can be built on grassland.

High level spells would cost essence (huge summons, volcanoes, etc)

Imbuing a hero with mana would cost essence (possibly have some heros start with mana).  Possibly make imbue a +mana or +melee ability, or (back to stat based spells) a configurable stat exchange.

Essence would be used to create unique and powerful artifacts

Essence would be used to create resources/permanent city/kingdom enhancements.  Possibly kingdom "auras" - Spend 2 essence to give your empire magically enhanced mining capability = +50% mining bonus.

Dying would cost essence.

At some point in the game a decision needs to be made to keep the sov at home and protected as the wandering mobs and armies get too tough, or restrict his essence use to remain a force out in the open.  The goal would be that the troop output of an essence buffed kingdom could equal (in different ways) that of a buffed out sov + army to allow different playstyles.  Hypothetically a 3 city kingdom and big sov could be the equal to a 20 city kingdom and now weak sov.

Could also tie in dynasty here, kids could be the one of the few ways to generate essence into the world.  Sov+Norm would potentially create a child with reduced essence (say 3 kids, 1 has good stats, 1 is a normal or maybe mana, 1 has stats+mana+a bit of essence or if lucky you get multiples with essence)

 

Back to the original point of the post, with gargantuan stats normal equipment isn't feasible and there would have to be sov only equipment.

Reply #9 from Elemental Forums Top

exactly the beauty of Dominions 3.. you can pretty much choose to be anything the game does. In Elemental I can be a mage, or a mage with high Int, or a mage with high Int and Wis or a mage with 5 str.. or... or.. the more I play, the more I see Elemental is pathetically superficial.. but I still really believe it will get better.. starting with 1.1, but not until then.
End of quote

In one of my games i intentionally made my sovereign a 'non-mage'. For ease of reference, i called him 'Conan' (original i know :p).

He got maximum physical stats, minimum caster stats, and no spellbooks. The only spell he ever cast was teleport. He eventually had like 150-ish attack and 90-ish defense. Very effective against anything but late-game multi-figure units. Played him until his son reached maturity and ended up being a 30-essence, 6-regen monster, then i played that :)

In short, you can very much make a melee sovereign and be successful with it(at least to the same degree you could be with a caster one).

Reply #10 from Elemental Forums Top

Well  for my opinion on this subject, I think it should defenetly be 4. It's a War of magic after all. So, I think the sovereign should be like your builder in Suprem commander: strong but not invincible. Also, you can specialise him into a good builder, a tank or a killing machine with the upgrade. Here, the upgrade should be something like spell that only the sovereign can learn/cast upon itself or a magical research that allow him to imbue itself with the shard. Something along those line :). I want an option to have a really strong caster or a fantastic builder (i'm more a turtle type that build strong city :))

Reply #11 from Elemental Forums Top

The sovereign should be the most powerful unit in the game or the possibility to become the strongest. His children should be weaker not stronger and he should have mana regen in combat and on the overland map.

The sovereign should be able to influence battle that he isn't in eventually. This could be done by learning complex spells or building special buildings. By the end game he should be like a god with the ability to influence his empires farthest reaches.

He should have the option of using his essence to help make the land fertile again. Maybe global spells that can help transform the land and when the land is fertile enough to grown on its own he should get his essence back. This would give you the ability and option of having a sovereign that is weaker on a magical scale but it could be offset by an empire that has more land, troops, and resources. Or you could hoard all the essence and become godlike in battles and enchantments. Note: By learning techs and building special buildings in your cities this could be accomplished without essence at a slower pace.

He should be able to transfer essence to weapons and items to make them magical. Depending on the powers it should cost more or less. You could then destroy the item to get that essence back. This way he could have no real magical power but his heroes and children could have lots because of him. Lots of strategic ways of playing. Also if you find some magical artifacts the ability to destroy them to gain their power.

There are many options but since this game is suppose to be a war of magic the game should put alot more focus on researching magic and using magic to advance. Right now magic is an after thought.

Reply #12 from Elemental Forums Top

Right now, a key feature in EWOM is that the sovereign ganis 10% of the experience all your units gain in combat.

I think this should be exploited to make the Sovereign a sort of global buff-bot. As he levels, he gains new abilities (like +5% metal production, +10% spelldamage and so on).

This COULD also tie in with champions and such, who would be less powerful buffers but still have a random assortment of skills (they wouldn't gain global EXP, and their skills would only affect the city they're in).