What happened to Real Time battles?

from Elemental Forums

I was watching some Elemental videos on Youtube and watche several ones about battles. I remember reading one of the Dev Journals saying that Elemental would have real time battles in the vein of Total War. Yet when I watch these videos, it's a turn based battle system. Whatever happened to the RTS elements. If I wanted to play a fantasy battle board game, I would have dug out my Heroscape set. What happened?

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Reply #1 from Elemental Forums Top

Have fun with Heroscape.  My kids love it. :thumbsup:

Reply #2 from Elemental Forums Top


I was watching some Elemental videos on Youtube and watche several ones about battles. I remember reading one of the Dev Journals saying that Elemental would have real time battles in the vein of Total War. Yet when I watch these videos, it's a turn based battle system. Whatever happened to the RTS elements. If I wanted to play a fantasy battle board game, I would have dug out my Heroscape set. What happened?

End of quote

 

It was changed to turn-based quite a while ago, I think before even Beta 1.  I'm actually kind of glad of that as there are plenty of RTS out there and almost no turn based.  

Ashes of the Singularity II
Reply #3 from Elemental Forums Top

I prefer turn-based battles too, but their implementation in Elemental still needs loads of work.

Reply #4 from Elemental Forums Top

I remember seeing a screenshot with a dragon surrounded by hundreds of soldiers during the games development. This was likely from the RTS phase of the early game. Problem is, Stardock pitched that screen as a major one, leading a lot of people to get confused. Seems most battles in Elemental have a max of 10 guys now.

Reply #5 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting GeneralEtrius, reply 4
I remember seeing a screenshot with a dragon surrounded by hundreds of soldiers during the games development. This was likely from the RTS phase of the early game. Problem is, Stardock pitched that screen as a major one, leading a lot of people to get confused. Seems most battles in Elemental have a max of 10 guys now.
End of GeneralEtrius's quote

 

Nope....I think I had something like 40 guys in a recent battle.

Reply #6 from Elemental Forums Top

That was the original plan, it was changed because they didn't find it worked very well internally (and because people looking for a game in the genre expect turn based combat).

Combat right now is limited to 10ish units per side, but a squad has more then one guy and still counts as a unit. (The exact stack limit was 10 in beta, I dunno if they changed it.)

Reply #7 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Rune_74, reply 5

Quoting GeneralEtrius, reply 4I remember seeing a screenshot with a dragon surrounded by hundreds of soldiers during the games development. This was likely from the RTS phase of the early game. Problem is, Stardock pitched that screen as a major one, leading a lot of people to get confused. Seems most battles in Elemental have a max of 10 guys now.

 

Nope....I think I had something like 40 guys in a recent battle.
End of Rune_74's quote

 

Not epic at all...

Reply #8 from Elemental Forums Top

I've found the stack limit is 12 units (each unit can contain up to 12 individuals).

Reply #9 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Nick-Danger, reply 8
I've found the stack limit is 12 units (each unit can contain up to 12 individuals).
End of Nick-Danger's quote

By stack limit, I mean the number of units that can sit in the same tile and move/fight together. :) IIRC it's 10 units. The current squad size limit is 12, but you could mod that higher pretty easily.

Reply #10 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Nick-Danger, reply 8
I've found the stack limit is 12 units (each unit can contain up to 12 individuals).
End of Nick-Danger's quote

I assume you can you bring multiple stacks of 12 to a battle then?  So, in theory, the wallpaper/screenshot battle could happen.

Reply #11 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Nick-Danger, reply 8
I've found the stack limit is 12 units (each unit can contain up to 12 individuals).
End of Nick-Danger's quote
Up to 12 units, actually. A unit can be made of many more people than just one.

Quoting Tridus, reply 9

Quoting Nick-Danger, reply 8I've found the stack limit is 12 units (each unit can contain up to 12 individuals).
By stack limit, I mean the number of units that can sit in the same tile and move/fight together. IIRC it's 10 units. The current squad size limit is 12, but you could mod that higher pretty easily.
End of Tridus's quote
stack limit was 12 the last time I hit it and actually checked (the first version we got access to). If the largest squads are also 12, then that means there's up to 144 people on each side, making maximum battle size 288 people. Less than 300 max is... not that much.

Reply #12 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Cruxador, reply 11

Quoting Nick-Danger, reply 8I've found the stack limit is 12 units (each unit can contain up to 12 individuals).Up to 12 units, actually. A unit can be made of many more people than just one.


Quoting Tridus, reply 9
Quoting Nick-Danger, reply 8I've found the stack limit is 12 units (each unit can contain up to 12 individuals).
By stack limit, I mean the number of units that can sit in the same tile and move/fight together. IIRC it's 10 units. The current squad size limit is 12, but you could mod that higher pretty easily.stack limit was 12 the last time I hit it and actually checked (the first version we got access to). If the largest squads are also 12, then that means there's up to 144 people on each side, making maximum battle size 288 people. Less than 300 max is... not that much.
End of Cruxador's quote

Believe it or not, but that's still a lot more than what is shown in this screenshot.  I counted around 160 living characters.

If you're right, then that's more than adequate for me.

Reply #13 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting GaelicVigil, reply 10

Quoting Nick-Danger, reply 8I've found the stack limit is 12 units (each unit can contain up to 12 individuals).
I assume you can you bring multiple stacks of 12 to a battle then?  So, in theory, the wallpaper/screenshot battle could happen.
End of GaelicVigil's quote

Yes, but to keep the terminology consistent we're using "unit" as a single entity. A squad is a unit that consists of more then one person (like a squad of peasants is say 8 peasants but they move and act together and thus are one unit). A stack is a group of units.

I found in beta mixing up the terms made it REALLY confusing as to what people were talking about. :)

Reply #14 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Tridus, reply 9

Quoting Nick-Danger, reply 8I've found the stack limit is 12 units (each unit can contain up to 12 individuals).
By stack limit, I mean the number of units that can sit in the same tile and move/fight together. IIRC it's 10 units. The current squad size limit is 12, but you could mod that higher pretty easily.
End of Tridus's quote
I mean that I can have a stack of 12 units that are grouped together as a stack.  Anymore and the 'extras' are in a different stack, sitting in that same tile.

The 12-unit stack can enter into a battle I initiate.

My 'killer stack' that I use offensively is sov, wife, 4 kids, and 6 summoned rock critters = 12 units.

We're using the terms the same (well, you add 'squad' which is a unit), where we differ is you say 10 units per stack, when I have stacks with 12.

Test it and see :)

Reply #15 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting GaelicVigil, reply 10
I assume you can you bring multiple stacks of 12 to a battle then?  So, in theory, the wallpaper/screenshot battle could happen.
End of GaelicVigil's quote
If I'm attacking the most I can have is 12 units x 12/unit = 144.  I haven't had luck getting >1 stack to enter an offensive battle (has anyone?).

On defense I've seen tactical battles where I have more than the 12 units (with up to 12 each unit).

So, one can't 'bring' in the sense of initiating such a battle, but one can 'have' multiple stacks if on the defensive.

If I'm wrong regarding any of this, please to let me know (and specifically where) :)

Reply #16 from Elemental Forums Top

Oh it's 12? Okay cool. :)

Reply #17 from Elemental Forums Top

Too bad 11 of those units stand back to watch the remaining soldier duel one soldier from the other side.

Reply #18 from Elemental Forums Top

By stack limit, I mean the number of units that can sit in the same tile and move/fight together. IIRC it's 10 units. The current squad size limit is 12, but you could mod that higher pretty easily.
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LOL not in my battles.. I have at least 4 melee units per and usually 2 are mounted heroes.. granted the rest are archers or caster/archers heroes.. I find the 2 hero seekers very useful with high hp mobs to bring the battle to an end faster.. my other 2 melee units can be fire giants / melee units...

Reply #19 from Elemental Forums Top

I personally don't mind the limit. I think in MoM it was something like 9 units.

I think that a smaller limit provides for better strategising in manually fought battles, and less tedium in trying to assign commands to a large number of units per turn, per battle. It just means you have to think about your unit grouping.

I think the only strategy this really disallows is battle swarming. That is, a player with high economy but weak military, mass manufacturing cheapy units to overwhelm by numbers, and sending them all into battle together. You can still do this by sending multiple groups to attack the same squadron in a single turn, but it involves having them all travel in close quarters.

Reply #20 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting _PawelS_, reply 3
I prefer turn-based battles too, but their implementation in Elemental still needs loads of work.
End of _PawelS_'s quote

Yeah turn-based is the way to go in a game like EWoM. [..and yeah, we all know that the battle mechanics must be tweaked/polished a lot. :)]

 

Quoting Istari, reply 19
I personally don't mind the limit. I think in MoM it was something like 9 units.
End of Istari's quote

Note: You can change the limits via modding anytime. You can have thousands of units in a single battle.

Reply #21 from Elemental Forums Top

Note: You can change the limits via modding anytime. You can have thousands of units in a single battle.
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THAT would be cool.

Reply #22 from Elemental Forums Top

I used to play alot of X-Com. My fav was Apocalypse. When it came down to tactical battle there was a choice between real time and turn based. You could adjust whenever. Usually if I'm out gunned, t/b gives me an edge. Anyway, it was an awesome option. I get frustrated with the tactical because of the time involved. I would use the quick resolution more often but there are times when the AI uses my mana unnecessarily. I generally save that for the more crucual battles. Any chance Elemental will have this option?