[Sugestion] Minor fractions - Get rid of them or free them to grow. Add a touch of KISS

I agree.

If you love someone, let them free

If a minor nation wins a game by rampaging ogres, then I will go to bed with a smile on my face

I think it would be more interesting if minor kingdoms not just grew but grew faster. So they could be powerful city-states that wheren't interested in expanding.  I also think that they shoud have random mercenary  tiles. a chance for any diplo merc. spider, drath, ogre, dragon or whatever.

When they first mentioned they would have neutral cities I imagined it more like MoM. They would simply be cities scattered around the map for you to conquer if you wanted. But instead they are actual faction you can conduct diplomacy with. The problem though is they can not grow, their cities are limited if conquered, and they are just in the way.

They should remove the city building limit on Minor faction cities cause most people just wanna raze them as soon as they get them. Next they should have the Minor faction actually build up and expand their city a bit. I think the neutral factions could provide an option for great trading partners. Right now it seems even if they have a ton of something the AI values it's Metal/Crystal/Materials way to much. And yet they give very little value to your own, sometimes it's marked as worthless. These neutral factions could be great sources of trade by having them trade off these goods for a little cheaper then the major factions would.

Besides trade partner they already provide a source of spouses for your children. I know I often prefer to marry one of them cause I don't recall the grand children ever leaving to join the minor faction the way they often do when I marry someone from major faction. They do often provide some cash and tech if you have treaties with them. The problem is the AI likes to wipe them out a lot so often times I find all the minor factions are soon dispatched from the game.

One of the things that made neutral cities so important in MoM was the fact that each city had it's own race which determined the buildings and units it could make. In EWOM though it's determined by your faction at the start. The minor faction's city is little more then a speed bump on your way to greatness. It's in the way because it can't be expanded on (leveled up) and it's often hogging valuable resources. This setup is just begging for you to raze their city.

Personally I think their should be a Diplomatic option to bring an neutral faction into your empire. I think it would also be neat if they each had their own unique building. I think a great example of this is Birth of the Federation. It was a great game when it came to having all the various neutral factions in the game as they all felt kinda unique with their own ships and special building.

While I don't think they should grow- they should try to conquer when attacked, and be rather hard nuts to crack.

There should also be a peaceful assimilation option, if you have marriage relations, high relations, and a large amount of gold.

they should definitely develop.  they certainly should not expand.  the fact that they are utterly incapable of defending themselves against the smallest of attacks is just plain wrong.  unique items in their shops would be cool too. (edit: other than the "awesome" pressed iron armor that they sell)

That must be unqiue to a specific one of the minor factions cause I've never seen them sell that armor. They usually are selling a few magic bands or amulets. All of which I can get by simply researching the magic tree. I did have one survive to late game because of their position on the map and they sold a lot of stuff but it was all pretty much stuff I could already buy at my own shops.

I do like the idea of them selling unique items though. Perhaps stuff only available to their faction since there are a few different minor factions.

I think we need to make sure we are all talking about the same thing when we say "grow". For example I get the impression some think they should by like full factions setting up more cities and such, which kinda defeats the purpose of "minor" faction. Personally when I talk about them growing I think that they should build up their city so that it becomes stronger and they can produce more. Thus allowing them to field better units and more of them. This way they can keep their defenses up as the game progresses.

not at home so i cant check...i think it is Lujon...or whatever...that sells the pressed iron (metal body armor has +4 without combat speed penalty, so it really is half-decent for cheap armor).  never saw any other unique items

exactamundo

Minor fraction cities;

1. Should be able to develop and grow.

2. Should have a personality. Some will be examples of swiss neutrality (fielding stronge defenses) while others will be willing to wheel and deal. Some may be home to thieves and brigands.

3. Should be commanded by a champion; sometimes a skilled merchant, farmer, warrior, adventurer or sage that continually gains experience at a slow rate.

4. May be of different races - i.e. perhaps a minor Ogre fraction.

I'm referring to growing as building pioneers.  Though I wouldn't mind if they did that after like turn 100 or something.

If I had my full way, the only difference between a minor and major would be minors couldn't win the adventure/magic/diplo routes, and wouldn't "try" to win.

boo to that.  they would no longer be minor factions, they would be...factions.  you are arguing to eliminate minor factions, not to improve them.  turning them into strong city-states which are capable of defending themselves is definitely the way to go.

When I mean grow I mean they should level up their cities. They should not expand because they are minor factions.  But I also think they should be powerful so they are hard to defeat. Maybe even get a prestige bonus so the city level gets better faster.

they have all the same problems as minor civs in gal giv 2. the point of them, i believe is to add colour and give the player some easier conquests in the early to mid game. however, the arbitrary limitations on their nature are totally pointless. if you want to have factions that are more isolationist and less powerful generally, then this can be done completely through giving them different AI and changing their stats.

I like the Ideas so far.

Powerful isolationist city-states ruled by powerful wizards or creatures. The only one I ever meet is yorin(sp?) 

I'd like to see them have unique buildings terrain/resources other then ogres. Maybe a city built around a bountiful/magical tree of life or waterfall with healing water. add in unique terrain graphic to give the game a more fantasy feel to the world. An evil cave that has a corrupted fire mana node in it that cause the orcs or ogers nearby extra strong of have limited magic (one spell, small non increaseable mana pool), maybe a valcano or something to make the world feel alive and not generic. Then you could tie quests into them. Or simply give each a advanced metal mine from the start with a unique name and graphic.